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Re: Traditional organizations? - rbjmartin - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 02:39 PM)RRR Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 02:25 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Err on the side of humility

Err on the side of Truth.

It is not an either/or proposition.  You're setting up a false dilemma.  He who is the Truth requires us to exercise humility.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm):
Quote:Humility is the first virtue inasmuch as it removes the obstacles to faith — per modum removens prohibens, as St. Thomas says. It removes pride and makes a man subject to and a fit recipient of grace according to the words of St. James: "God resisteth the proud, and giveth his grace to the humble" (James 4:6).

(11-05-2009, 02:39 PM)RRR Wrote: Does Loverde believe it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained? This is condemned heresy.

Does Loverde believe liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. This is condemned heresy.

Does Loverde believe in freedom to publish any writings whatever and disseminate them to the people. This is condemned heresy.

Why don't you ask him yourself, since you have delegated to yourself the role of Inquisitor General.


Re: Traditional organizations? - RRR - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:03 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: It is not an either/or proposition.  You're setting up a false dilemma.

I did not say don't error on the side of humility. The popes said the laity can decide which books contain heresy that they can steal and burn. They did not say be sheepish, leave it to the proper authorities and follow heretics.

Don't be like the laity throughout the ages who went along with heretical bishops.

(11-05-2009, 03:03 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Why don't you ask him yourself,


So you now you think the laity is competent to judge the heretical status of bishops?

(11-05-2009, 03:03 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: since you have delegated to yourself the role of Inquisitor General.

He's not my bishop. But this is something very serious, these times we live in are worse than during the Arian Heresy where the majority of the bishops were heretics. Do you care if someone does ask him questions to find out if he is a heretic or not, or was that just a snide remark?

Persecution or isolation of traditional priests and societies by bishops is a red flag. Do these same bishops treat modernist heretical priests the same way? Anyone Catholic could answer that question. The answer is no. Heretics are given a free pass and traditionalist priests and organizations are persecuted by their own bishops. What does that tell you?


Re: Traditional organizations? - AndreasAngelopolitanus - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 01:35 PM)RRR Wrote: The See of Los Angeles has been vacant for quite some time.

You can have him as your confessor because heresy does not cause loss of Holy Orders, but I would not recommend going to confession to Mahony because he would declare many of your sins as not being sinful.

Cardinal Mahony heard your confession??  :o

Wow!  You must be a wealthy donor to the Archdiocese... a member of the "Cardinal's Council" perhaps?  "Members Only" Masses must be sooo coool.

http://www.olacathedral.org/cathedral/giving/associates-level3.html




Re: Traditional organizations? - RRR - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:46 PM)AndreasAngelopolitanus Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 01:35 PM)RRR Wrote: The See of Los Angeles has been vacant for quite some time.

You can have him as your confessor because heresy does not cause loss of Holy Orders, but I would not recommend going to confession to Mahony because he would declare many of your sins as not being sinful.

Cardinal Mahony heard your confession??   :o

Wow!  You must be a wealthy donor to the Archdiocese... a member of the "Cardinal's Council" perhaps?  "Members Only" Masses must be sooo coool.

http://www.olacathedral.org/cathedral/giving/associates-level3.html

:laughing:

No, just making a point that heresy does not cause the loss of Holy Orders.


Re: Traditional organizations? - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:46 PM)AndreasAngelopolitanus Wrote: Cardinal Mahony heard your confession??   :o

Wow!  You must be a wealthy donor to the Archdiocese... a member of the "Cardinal's Council" perhaps?  "Members Only" Masses must be sooo coool.

http://www.olacathedral.org/cathedral/giving/associates-level3.html

Woah.  Sometimes I feel spoiled here in beautiful Kansas City.  Bishop Finn has regular confession hours in the Cathedral (http://kcgolddome.org/page.php?ID=168), on top of the numerous other confession times.


Re: Traditional organizations? - The_Harlequin_King - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 08:51 AM)glgas Wrote: It does sound good. Personally I would forgoe the food and socialising for a valid confession, but that's just me. Each to his own. Whatever works for you I guess.

I think I said it before, but if I was a pastor, every high Mass (save during Lent) would be followed by sherry hour.


In our current age, I think associating with other traditional Catholics is more necessary for one's sanity than ever before.


Re: Traditional organizations? - rbjmartin - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:31 PM)RRR Wrote: He's not my bishop. But this is something very serious, these times we live in are worse than during the Arian Heresy where the majority of the bishops were heretics. Do you care if someone does ask him questions to find out if he is a heretic or not, or was that just a snide remark?

Look, it's not your job to micro-manage the bishops or any of your fellow Catholics, for that matter.  Look after your own soul.  If you see or hear a bishop doing or saying something contrary to the Faith, by all means, point it out.  But don't seek out faults in others.  That is not your place, and it runs contrary to the Gospel.


(11-05-2009, 03:31 PM)RRR Wrote: Persecution or isolation of traditional priests and societies by bishops is a red flag. Do these same bishops treat modernist heretical priests the same way? Anyone Catholic could answer that question. The answer is no. Heretics are given a free pass and traditionalist priests and organizations are persecuted by their own bishops. What does that tell you?

Fr. Ringrose is not being persecuted.  He is operating in a diocese without permission of the local ordinary, which is a violation of Canon Law, and it should not be taken lightly.  I'm sure his supporters try to justify it by declaring a state of emergency in the Arlington Diocese, but unless they are absolutely sure that there is no where else where they may licitly receive the sacraments without supporting heterodox clergy, then they have no business visiting his chapel.  Clearly, the diocese is providing plenty of opportunities for the faithful to attend the TLM.  And I know from personal experience with many diocesan priests in Arlington that there are plenty of 100% orthodox Catholic priests who are operating in Arlington with full adherence to Canon Law and with due obedience to the local ordinary.

This isn't the wild west, folks.  You can't just go "indy" because it's more convenient for you.


Re: Traditional organizations? - The_Harlequin_King - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:59 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: This isn't the wild west, folks.

........ but it should be. Weren't the fascia around the cassocks invented to holster two six-shooters?




Re: Traditional organizations? - RRR - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 03:59 PM)rbjmartin Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 03:31 PM)RRR Wrote: He's not my bishop. But this is something very serious, these times we live in are worse than during the Arian Heresy where the majority of the bishops were heretics. Do you care if someone does ask him questions to find out if he is a heretic or not, or was that just a snide remark?

Look, it's not your job to micro-manage the bishops or any of your fellow Catholics, for that matter.  Look after your own soul.  If you see or hear a bishop doing or saying something contrary to the Faith, by all means, point it out.  But don't seek out faults in others.  That is not your place, and it runs contrary to the Gospel.

Trying to find out which clerics are heretics is being judgmental and finding fault? Trying to find out who is orthodox and who is a heretic runs contrary to the Gospel? Wow. And this comment is on a traditional Catholic forum? I am shocked.


Re: Traditional organizations? - RRR - 11-05-2009

(11-04-2009, 06:57 PM)damooster Wrote: I'm sorry if this information is available somewhere on the website. I did not find it.

I want to attend a TLM that is offered by an organization like SSPX, FSSP, ICK etc., but none of those groups are in my area (area code 22305, northern VA). Are there any other organizations I should look for?

Both the SSPX and FSSP are over 3 hours away, and the closest ICK is in Jersey.

I can't complain too much; a parish 15 minutes away offers the TLM every Sunday, but it is held in a very "progressive" NO parish and I was hoping to find a traditional community.

Thanks.

Attend an Eastern Catholic Mass. Their Churches are much freer from the chaos going on in ours, except the Ruthenian Catholic Church. The Ruthenian Catholic Church has their own version of the N.O.

Even rbjmartin would approve of it.  ;D