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Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Printable Version

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Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Tim - 11-18-2009

In Canticle for Liebowitz, Miller deals kind of with this. As the mangled priest lays dying he happens to have the Ciborium And he offers Communion to the mutant and she shuns it. The takeaway is Humanity is cursed with Original Sin, but she is not, and she knows it.I think the question is moot, we can not travel faster than light and that's that. Sci-Fi is still fiction. I still like Sci-Fi though.
tim


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Matusleo - 11-18-2009

(11-17-2009, 09:44 PM)Oldavid Wrote:
(11-17-2009, 08:40 PM)Matusleo Wrote: , and I do want to explore the issue of whether the alien races need redemption, and also, how the aliens in their own faith view the Catholics of Earth. 
Dominus tecum

What aliens?

Alien races in a Sci Fi story I'm writing.

Dominus tecum


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Matusleo - 11-18-2009

(11-17-2009, 09:49 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(11-17-2009, 08:40 PM)Matusleo Wrote: I'm reminded of Poul Anderson's story "High Crusade".  English Knights and Priests from the 12th century steal a spaceship that came to destroy their village, and end up conquering and converting all the Galaxy to Catholicism.  Great read. :-)

I have a Sci Fi story I want to write, and I do want to explore the issue of whether the alien races need redemption, and also, how the aliens in their own faith view the Catholics of Earth.  I haven't figured out all the details yet, but definitely no stain of liberalism there.  That's my intent at least!

Dominus tecum

What sort of lifeforms will these be? Will it be Star Trek like space opera? Will it be Lovecraftian entities?

I was thinking more Space Opera style aliens as it gives us points of connection that we can establish and understand.  That said, I'll do more than just change their noses and hairstyles. ;-)

Dominus tecum


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Matusleo - 11-18-2009

(11-18-2009, 04:33 PM)timoose Wrote: In Canticle for Liebowitz, Miller deals kind of with this. As the mangled priest lays dying he happens to have the Ciborium And he offers Communion to the mutant and she shuns it. The takeaway is Humanity is cursed with Original Sin, but she is not, and she knows it.I think the question is moot, we can not travel faster than light and that's that. Sci-Fi is still fiction. I still like Sci-Fi though.
tim

Oh, is that what that was supposed to mean?  I totally didn't get that when I read it.  All I recall was that the mutant had two heads and that one of them was child-like.

I did love the argument between the Thon and the Abbot in the second section about the 'freedom of scientific inquiry'.  Everything a secularist is going to say was already said by the Thon.  Very instructive book in that regard.

Dominus tecum


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Historian - 11-18-2009

(11-18-2009, 07:18 PM)Matusleo Wrote: I was thinking more Space Opera style aliens as it gives us points of connection that we can establish and understand.  That said, I'll do more than just change their noses and hairstyles. ;-)

Dominus tecum

You could make them created on earth, and then transplanted by some unknown means (star gates, old technology, etc) to other parts of the galaxy.

Star Trek ties in most humanoid species (mainly after the fact, as over time, they had to explain why most sentient beings are humanoid and able to mate with each other), but I'm not sure how.


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - LRThunder - 11-18-2009

(11-18-2009, 07:22 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(11-18-2009, 07:18 PM)Matusleo Wrote: I was thinking more Space Opera style aliens as it gives us points of connection that we can establish and understand.  That said, I'll do more than just change their noses and hairstyles. ;-)

Dominus tecum

You could make them created on earth, and then transplanted by some unknown means (star gates, old technology, etc) to other parts of the galaxy.

Star Trek ties in most humanoid species (mainly after the fact, as over time, they had to explain why most sentient beings are humanoid and able to mate with each other), but I'm not sure how.

There was one Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where the crew of the Enterprise raced against Romulans and Cardassians to locate something, and I think it had something to do with how the different humanoids were similar.


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - Matusleo - 11-18-2009

(11-18-2009, 07:22 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(11-18-2009, 07:18 PM)Matusleo Wrote: I was thinking more Space Opera style aliens as it gives us points of connection that we can establish and understand.  That said, I'll do more than just change their noses and hairstyles. ;-)

Dominus tecum

You could make them created on earth, and then transplanted by some unknown means (star gates, old technology, etc) to other parts of the galaxy.

Star Trek ties in most humanoid species (mainly after the fact, as over time, they had to explain why most sentient beings are humanoid and able to mate with each other), but I'm not sure how.

I've got a pretty thorough background on the aliens already, although one could potentially draw a parallel between them and a variant on dinosaurs (in case one couldn't tell, I kind of like them too!).  One thing I do know about them is that they are fiercely protective of their young from the moment of conception.  Of course, as egg layers, it's even more explicit. 

Dominus tecum


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - yosupman - 12-13-2009

alien talk is pure nonsense.  I would cut this guys budget, and put him on an assignment to reform the church. :laughing:


Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - DesperatelySeeking - 12-13-2009

I think the headline, and the thread title, throw this off a little bit.  Within the article, note that the astronomer says they may not need redemption because they remained in full union with the Father.  That's a little different than saying that aliens are just outside of God's plan.

Now, as to the admissibility of life on other planets, I think the Drake equation is a pretty persuasive argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation .

Any form of extraterrestrial life would not be "demons" or "Satanic".  God created the natural order.  All things that He created are good.  That doesn't mean that every person in the world is good, and, it does not mean that everything that we create here in the physical world are good.  What it does mean is that we must recall that 1) the demonic is part of the supernatural order, and, 2) it came into being through Lucifer's disobedience, and not through God's direct creation.  So, God didn't create a race of demons as part of the natural world.

And, I think "all" here means "all".  Whenever we find out whether they exist or not, we are still bound to bring the Gospel to them.

Matthew 28:19-20.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:



Re: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption - DesperatelySeeking - 12-14-2009

(12-14-2009, 07:19 AM)Bellringer Wrote:Aliens are not part of the 'nations'. We know that only humans have souls, for only humans were made in God's image. No other creature has a soul, and so bringing them the Gospel could bring no other creature salvation.
It is best that we focus on the spiritual world, rather than on the potentially non-existant world of extra-terrestials.

OK, so any other living being that has BOTH reason AND free will is not savable?