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The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Printable Version

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Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - franklinf - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 04:15 PM)Carnivore Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 01:11 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Well, we can talk about sports, but I'd rather talk about something meaningful.  :shrug:

But what exactly is this accomplishing?  I appreciate that you pointed out that it cannot be "proven" that attending the OF Mass is "sinful" given the information we have.  That was one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard -- by anyone.  But other than that we are going around in circles.  I follow Jesus Christ though his Church and you follow your interpretation of articles from The Remnant (or is it The Wanderer?) or wherever.  We're not likely to find common ground.

Do you guys even consider yourselves Catholics or just pagan waiting in the wings to reclaim the Church?  I'm curious about that one...

Carnivore,

Could you please ansewr the question now that your demand has been met? It is a very simple question and isn't referring to any specifc mass.


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - INPEFESS - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 12:51 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 01:29 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-10-2009, 10:55 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(12-10-2009, 09:44 PM)Carnivore Wrote: 8.) I would disagree for the most part.  I think his biggest concern by far is how people have taken license with the OF Mass in complete disregard for the rubrics.  I do believe he wants to tighten certain things up and that's great -- more organic refinement.  I also think he's quite adept at displaying his own preferences within the rubics while he himself celebrates the Mass and that in itself is a huge blessing.

The "license" is part of the NO...they are really inseparable for all practical purposes...the difference between a guy like you...that wants his NO dressed up with some Latin and Greek, and a guy like Scrott Hahn who wants some wailing in the aisles ...is nothing but a matter of taste


But with a trad it is typically a major theological difference...the old true Faith against a new impostor or at least one devoid of substance...and the impostor shows himself well by his fruits...and other things.

But I distract the discussion...keep going

Precisely. To minimize the objections of traditional Catholics to mere "preference" and “taste” is absolute folly to say the least. It is not about the smells and bells or the appearance; it is about the content - what is said, or, more importantly, what is not said. If it is the Ordinary and official prayer of the Church, it should properly and efficiently express what the Church teaches. Though many will post pictures of very reverent and orthodox traditions woven into the new Mass, this is a perfect example of the lack of unity of worship in the Church, one of the legs supporting the three-legged stool of religion. The Truths of the Faith presented in the Mass should be expressed in the same unified and Universal manner which can not be opted, changed, omitted, dropped, substituted, customized, or in any way altered by the individual priest. There should be no preferences when it comes to expressing the Truths of the Catholic Faith. There should be no "for many" and "for all". There should be no Eucharistic Prayers professing the propitiatory nature of the Mass, and then a Eucharistic Prayer which omits it. There should be no mention of "bread of life" and then "Body of Christ". There should be no "celebration of Christ's death" and then "the Sacrifice of Christ". Without the Offertory of the Mass explicitly confessing the unchanging nature of these Truths, there is no unified profession of belief. Without these specific Truths and petitions being unambiguously represented, there is little evidence of these Truths outside of the words of Consecration. And even these words are not but the repetition of an ancient dialogue recorded in Scripture. Any heretic could read the words and not actually believe what they mean - that It is truly God in the Flesh and Blood held between the fingers of the priest. Protestants read it all the time yet deny its Truth. It is was because of this that the Offertory was the first thing that Luther sought to remove from the Mass. The Offertory is a principle separation of worship between Catholics and heretics. It is an unchanging, unambiguous profession of faith, offering to God, and propitiatory acknowledgement and confession of belief. That is the Mass that is so important to the maintenance of the first mark by which the Church may be known. It is One in faith, worship, and government.

Agreed, and I'm glad that to my reading at least, B16 is on the same page.  When he calls ad orientem an essential part of Christian liturgy it is clear, to me at least, he doesn't view these things as "bells and smells" but as part of the profession of faith and latria which needs to be inherent in the liturgy.

How much he will be able to fix against the tide of Modernists and Liberals is another question.

What confuses me is how it appears that, to an extent, he has radically changed his theological approach. During the council, he was one of the primary influencial liberals (and many say one of the Modernists as well) pushing for many of the "reformations". I find it odd that he would find liberals and Modernists a great impediment to his work today.



Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Historian - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 06:02 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: What confuses me is how it appears that, to an extent, he has radically changed his theological approach. During the council, he was one of the primary influencial liberals (and many say one of the Modernists as well) pushing for many of the "reformations". I find it odd that he would find liberals and Modernists a great impediment to his work today.
That makes sense.

A man who is chosen to be the Pope has greater responsibilities and has a lot of people (I hope, I do my part) praying for him.




Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - INPEFESS - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 06:17 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 06:02 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: What confuses me is how it appears that, to an extent, he has radically changed his theological approach. During the council, he was one of the primary influencial liberals (and many say one of the Modernists as well) pushing for many of the "reformations". I find it odd that he would find liberals and Modernists a great impediment to his work today.
That makes sense.

A man who is chosen to be the Pope has greater responsibilities and has a lot of people (I hope, I do my part) praying for him.

That is true.

Yes, he needs prayers. I offer my daily rosary for him.

Although, it seems strange that, if he did see the dangers of that which he previously promoted and instigated, he wouldn't condemn them instantly for the sake of his own soul. I hope he is as sincere as he seems. I must give him the benefit of doubt.


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Historian - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 06:26 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 06:17 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 06:02 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: What confuses me is how it appears that, to an extent, he has radically changed his theological approach. During the council, he was one of the primary influencial liberals (and many say one of the Modernists as well) pushing for many of the "reformations". I find it odd that he would find liberals and Modernists a great impediment to his work today.
That makes sense.

A man who is chosen to be the Pope has greater responsibilities and has a lot of people (I hope, I do my part) praying for him.

That is true.

Yes, he needs prayers. I offer my daily rosary for him.

Although, it seems strange that, if he did see the dangers of that which he previously promoted and instigated, he wouldn't condemn them instantly for the sake of his own soul. I hope he is as sincere as he seems. I must give him the benefit of doubt.

I think there is more to him which may be publicly published. Time will tell.

Now, a rational discussion on this thread may ruin its spirit...we should stop now while we can.

Where were we?

Would it be sinful to attend a mass which was blatantly disrespectful to God?


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Historian - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 04:15 PM)Carnivore Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 01:11 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: Well, we can talk about sports, but I'd rather talk about something meaningful.  :shrug:

  I follow Jesus Christ though his Church and you follow your interpretation of articles from The Remnant (or is it The Wanderer?) or wherever.  We're not likely to find common ground.

I've been quoting the Pope, not the Remnant nor the Wanderer.  Neither of which I read.  You've been quoting... oh yeah, your own version of Catholicism as the "true one" with no recognition for the valid charism and attachment to the immemorial forms of liturgy and Sacraments that traditional Catholics have.  And I say valid because two Popes have called them valid attachments.

What do you read?  National Catholic Reporter?  That sounds about right...

Quote:Do you guys even consider yourselves Catholics or just pagan waiting in the wings to reclaim the Church?  I'm curious about that one...

That is very offensive.  I thought you were interested in "critical thinking" and honest discussion.  It appears you are just a troll as everyone thought you were, and not a very good one at that.  Clearly you don't consider us Catholics even though the Pope does.  But, you know, his opinion is what counts even though you seem to dismiss his opinion on liturgy as "non-authoritative".  I'm wondering if you consider the Pope to be Catholic...

Last chance:  if you want critical thinking and honest discussion, that's fine.  If you want to troll here and offend trads, take off or I will ban you.


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Historian - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 06:02 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 12:51 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 01:29 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-10-2009, 10:55 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(12-10-2009, 09:44 PM)Carnivore Wrote: 8.) I would disagree for the most part.  I think his biggest concern by far is how people have taken license with the OF Mass in complete disregard for the rubrics.  I do believe he wants to tighten certain things up and that's great -- more organic refinement.  I also think he's quite adept at displaying his own preferences within the rubics while he himself celebrates the Mass and that in itself is a huge blessing.

The "license" is part of the NO...they are really inseparable for all practical purposes...the difference between a guy like you...that wants his NO dressed up with some Latin and Greek, and a guy like Scrott Hahn who wants some wailing in the aisles ...is nothing but a matter of taste


But with a trad it is typically a major theological difference...the old true Faith against a new impostor or at least one devoid of substance...and the impostor shows himself well by his fruits...and other things.

But I distract the discussion...keep going

Precisely. To minimize the objections of traditional Catholics to mere "preference" and “taste” is absolute folly to say the least. It is not about the smells and bells or the appearance; it is about the content - what is said, or, more importantly, what is not said. If it is the Ordinary and official prayer of the Church, it should properly and efficiently express what the Church teaches. Though many will post pictures of very reverent and orthodox traditions woven into the new Mass, this is a perfect example of the lack of unity of worship in the Church, one of the legs supporting the three-legged stool of religion. The Truths of the Faith presented in the Mass should be expressed in the same unified and Universal manner which can not be opted, changed, omitted, dropped, substituted, customized, or in any way altered by the individual priest. There should be no preferences when it comes to expressing the Truths of the Catholic Faith. There should be no "for many" and "for all". There should be no Eucharistic Prayers professing the propitiatory nature of the Mass, and then a Eucharistic Prayer which omits it. There should be no mention of "bread of life" and then "Body of Christ". There should be no "celebration of Christ's death" and then "the Sacrifice of Christ". Without the Offertory of the Mass explicitly confessing the unchanging nature of these Truths, there is no unified profession of belief. Without these specific Truths and petitions being unambiguously represented, there is little evidence of these Truths outside of the words of Consecration. And even these words are not but the repetition of an ancient dialogue recorded in Scripture. Any heretic could read the words and not actually believe what they mean - that It is truly God in the Flesh and Blood held between the fingers of the priest. Protestants read it all the time yet deny its Truth. It is was because of this that the Offertory was the first thing that Luther sought to remove from the Mass. The Offertory is a principle separation of worship between Catholics and heretics. It is an unchanging, unambiguous profession of faith, offering to God, and propitiatory acknowledgement and confession of belief. That is the Mass that is so important to the maintenance of the first mark by which the Church may be known. It is One in faith, worship, and government.

Agreed, and I'm glad that to my reading at least, B16 is on the same page.  When he calls ad orientem an essential part of Christian liturgy it is clear, to me at least, he doesn't view these things as "bells and smells" but as part of the profession of faith and latria which needs to be inherent in the liturgy.

How much he will be able to fix against the tide of Modernists and Liberals is another question.

What confuses me is how it appears that, to an extent, he has radically changed his theological approach. During the council, he was one of the primary influencial liberals (and many say one of the Modernists as well) pushing for many of the "reformations". I find it odd that he would find liberals and Modernists a great impediment to his work today.

My opinion is he grew up quickly after V2 when he saw the devastation the Modernists were using VC2 to justify.  As head of the CDF his hands were tied by a liberal Pope, and now there are limits to what he can do without causing schisms and such.  He wants to fix things, but with as little collateral damage as possible.  Look at the crap he took over remitting the excommunications of the SSPX, but he still did it.  And look at the crap he took over Bp Williamson, yet he still remitted Bp W's excommunication.  I think there is a certain amount of prudence involved in fixing things.  A whole generation has grown up thinking being Catholic is World Youth Day and Charismatic Masses - it will be difficult to convince them otherwise.  I like B16 tons.

Just my $0.02


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Scipio_a - 12-11-2009

Quote:Do you guys even consider yourselves Catholics or just pagan waiting in the wings to reclaim the Church?  I'm curious about that one...
Quote:That is very offensive.  ...troll.
Sorry...could not resist that change...just seemed funny



Don't be too offended....LOL

Heck I'm not even Christian as shown on another forum by a self appointed saint, as you know...so being part of a pagan conspiracy is fun for me ...gives me something to aspire to --------hostile take over in action....stand clear :laughing:


Here's a pic of all us pagans plotting... :bonfire:


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - INPEFESS - 12-11-2009

(12-11-2009, 11:02 PM)Scipio_a Wrote: Heck I'm not even Christian as shown on another forum

That must be because you support Archbishop Lefebvre. How anti-Christian of you.  ;)


Re: The Fundamentalist Catholic Flowchart -- a Good Laugh LOL! - Scipio_a - 12-12-2009

(12-11-2009, 11:05 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-11-2009, 11:02 PM)Scipio_a Wrote: Heck I'm not even Christian as shown on another forum

That must be because you support Archbishop Lefebvre. How anti-Christian of you.  ;)

No, no...it wasn't that bad...the guy probably does also...I'm not Christian on that board because I don't say folks are evil if they stuggle with a sin....even with confession...
I don't ostrasize = not Christian over there to some
...I'm not kidding