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Re: New GIRM? - Credo - 01-01-2010

DesperatelySeeking Wrote:would you say yes or no to the broad question, "Is the currently 40 and under generation of Catholics generally well-catechized?"

No, I would not.

Quote:do you agree with my preceding statement a couple of posts ago that there is a generation of Catholics adrift from the basic tenets of the Faith?

Yes.

Having read commentary from the time before the Council, however, it seems catechises was very surface level. No doubt folk could recite various questions and answers from one of the catechisms. However, did they know what it meant? I know from working in a school that prides itself on "traditional" teaching methods vis-a-vis religion (read: rote memorization), that while it is charming to see students reciting the Baltimore Catechism from memory, there is zero concept comprehension. I've asked traditional Catholic kids slightly rephrased catechism questions, giving the students free reign to put the answer in their own words, only to get totally blank stares in return.

Having been brought up by folk reared in the 1940s and '50s, there also seemed to be issues concerning devotional practices. So one doesn't go to Mass to celebrate the death and resurrection of Christ for the salvation of the world, they do so because the guy in the cassock told them that God was going to zap them with hellfire if they weren't plopped in that pew.


Re: New GIRM? - DesperatelySeeking - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 09:59 AM)Credo Wrote:
DesperatelySeeking Wrote:would you say yes or no to the broad question, "Is the currently 40 and under generation of Catholics generally well-catechized?"
one doesn't go to Mass to celebrate the death and resurrection of Christ for the salvation of the world, they do so because the guy in the cassock told them that God was going to zap them with hellfire if they weren't plopped in that pew.

Nothing wrong with that at all.  The Church distinguishes between contrition (perfect sorrow) and attrition (imperfect sorrow), and recognizes that either is grounds for absolution. We have to aspire to repentance in sorrow for offending Christ, but being afraid of going to Hell is also sufficient.


Re: New GIRM? - Credo - 01-01-2010

DesperatelySeeking Wrote:Nothing wrong with that at all.

But there is. By your own definition, DesperatelySeeking, it is fine for one to putter through life with a stunted motivation for embracing the Truth. This motivation namely being fear. By virtue of this retarded spiritual drive, wouldn't you say one misses out on something elemental in life, the ability to love God for who he is? If I was a priest, I wouldn't just want people to get by. I would want them to live life to the fullest.


Re: New GIRM? - salome - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 09:59 AM)Credo Wrote: Having read commentary from the time before the Council, however, it seems catechises was very surface level.

I would agree.  For instance, it seems many Roman Catholics, myself included, have a very VERY minimal knowledge of the Eastern Catholic Church and their theology.  Most of us are aware that there are different liturgical rites in the Church but many of us are very unfamiliar with the rich theology of the East.  It's as if Roman Catholics believe and/or were perhaps taught, that the Western view of theology, i.e. Scholasticism, is the only one around.  That is certainly far from true. 


Re: New GIRM? - DesperatelySeeking - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 10:19 AM)Credo Wrote:
DesperatelySeeking Wrote:Nothing wrong with that at all.

But there is. By your own definition, DesperatelySeeking, it is fine for one to putter through life with a stunted motivation for embracing the Truth. This motivation namely being fear. By virtue of this retarded spiritual drive, wouldn't you say one misses out on something elemental in life, the ability to love God for who he is? If I was a priest, I wouldn't just want people to get by. I would want them to live life to the fullest.

Welcome to the real world....everybody wants to live life to the fullest, but we're imperfect.  It's not possible.

I said that we all must strive for this state, however, despite our limitations;  and in the meantime, thank God, He's merciful enough to forgive and accept us even still.

Look, we're children in God's sight.  When my son does something wrong, I can't possibly expect him to come to me in pure sorrow for breaking a window, i.e., his anguish being caused solely by the knowledge that he's done something of which I would disapprove.  But he will come and 'fess up out of fear of getting grounded or whatever the punishment will be.  That is more than sufficient for for me to forgive him.  Works the same way between us and God.


Re: New GIRM? - Historian - 01-01-2010

I really don't see what harping on about the bad catechesis on the parish level does. If it concerns you why not offer to teach CCD or sacramental preparation? Watered down catechesis that consists of social justice and colouring in pictures of Noah's Ark isn't what the popes want.

"30. With regard to the content of catechesis, three important points deserve special attention today.

The first point concerns the integrity of the content. In order that the sacrificial offering of his or her faith(75) should be perfect, the person who becomes a disciple of Christ has the right to receive "the word of faith"(76) not in mutilated, falsified or diminished form but whole and entire, in all its rigor and vigor. Unfaithfulness on some point to the integrity of the message means a dangerous weakening of catechesis and putting at risk the results that Christ and the ecclesial community have a right to expect from it."


It's sad that most priests and teachers in the Church are either too liberal or too apathetic to teach authentic Catholicism, but it's not as if the Church sanctions this. I'm just grateful for the few parishes, orders and individuals who do offer good religious instruction. Atleast authentic Catholicism is out their for those who seek it.

Wheat and chaff and all that....


Re: New GIRM? - DesperatelySeeking - 01-02-2010

(01-01-2010, 10:14 PM)Servus_Maria Wrote: I really don't see what harping on about the bad catechesis on the parish level does.

It doesn't do anything. 

My original mention of catechesis was as aside; in a response to a previous statement that 40 years is a blip in the history of the Church (true, by the way), I stepped in to observe that 40 years is significant in the life of an individual, so that I think it's incorrect to dismiss 40 years of mostly negative effects (from a traditional perspective) of V2 as transient.


Re: New GIRM? - churchesoffortwayne - 01-07-2010

Garbage in garbage out, still we are moving to a more consevative setting as we speak so there is hope, and while I think v2 had some good ideas they were so misapplyed it was not funny, and certain leaders will have to answere to God for what they did under the movement of Vatican 2

signed Jeremy churches of fortwayne


Re: New GIRM? - Joshua - 01-07-2010

(12-28-2009, 09:07 AM)Credo Wrote: What are people getting bent out of shape over? A dog wasn't kept on a leash, or who escaped from the rectory, wanders into a church and people are blaming the Missal of Paul VI? You can't be serious. Would you have the dog shot on the spot and called a Modernist?

I have no interest participating in this "debate", but to clarify the video showed more than a random dog wandering into the Parish. Towards the end of the video, the Priest places the Missal in the dog's mouth and they "process" out together as the Mass comes to a close. I'd venture to say that this does indeed merit being bent out of shape. While I wouldn't say that this was the Novus Ordo Missae's fault, but I would certainly say that it is indeed a manifestation of the great and terrible crisis afflicting Holy Mother Church, of which the NO is both its most grand achievement and most efficient weapon.

In Corde Regis,
Joshua 


Re: New GIRM? - Credo - 01-07-2010

DesperatelySeeking Wrote:Welcome to the real world....everybody wants to live life to the fullest

I seriously doubt that statement. I've found most people are quite content with mediocracy.