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Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Printable Version

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Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Beware_the_Ides - 12-31-2009

Thanks.  I was just rereading the thread to see what he was talking about.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - INPEFESS - 12-31-2009

You're welcome. The original post was:

(12-29-2009, 09:40 AM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: I've been visiting this site (http://www.spiritdaily.com/) for a while.  It has some good stuff.  What makes my teeth curl is the promotion of Medjugorje by the site owner.  I've exchanged emails with him over the last year or so on occasion expressing an opposing point of view.  In fact, just again in the last week.  The response is always a polite rebuff in the offering of prayer for my discernment.   ::)

Here's the link to today's headline on his site - http://crownofstars.blogspot.com/2009/12/cardinal-to-speak-at-medjugorje.html

I see nothing in that post that in any way condemns Schonborn.

The only post I have found to which glgas could have directed his response is:

Vetus Ordo Wrote:Perhaps His Eminence wishes to introduce balloons at the Masses in Medjugorje. It would be fitting.

Still, no matter how I try to extrapolate judgments from the text, there are none whatsoever. It is a fact that His Eminence celebrated a "balloon Mass" (let's assume it really was one). A reference to His Eminence's liturgical abuses is hardly a condmemnation of the man.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Beware_the_Ides - 12-31-2009

Agreed.  I admire your charity and patience with gglas.  :tiphat:


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - INPEFESS - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 05:46 PM)Beware_the_Ides Wrote: Agreed.  I admire your charity and patience with gglas.   :tiphat:

:cheers:


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Augstine Baker - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

You're welcome.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - INPEFESS - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 08:28 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

You're welcome.

Yes, and he wasn't cardinal until February 2, 1983. Was he ever ferendae sententiae excommunicated? I can't find where he was. Again, why not?


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Augstine Baker - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 08:55 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 08:28 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

You're welcome.

Yes, and he wasn't cardinal until February 2, 1983. Was he ever ferendae sententiae excommunicated? I can't find where he was. Again, why not?

What does the date of his becoming Cardinal have to do with anything?  No.  And I have no idea who you're talking about.  If you're talking about +Bernardine, it's probably because he was implicated heavily in the Banco Ambrosiano scandal, covering up his predecessor Cardinal Cody's tracks, since Cody was involved in the money laundering going on between +Marcinkus and his Chicago contacts.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - INPEFESS - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 09:12 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 08:55 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 08:28 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

You're welcome.

Yes, and he wasn't cardinal until February 2, 1983. Was he ever ferendae sententiae excommunicated? I can't find where he was. Again, why not?

What does the date of his becoming Cardinal have to do with anything?   No.  And I have no idea who you're talking about.  If you're talking about +Bernardine, it's probably because he was implicated heavily in the Banco Ambrosiano scandal, covering up his predecessor Cardinal Cody's tracks, since Cody was involved in the money laundering going on between +Marcinkus and his Chicago contacts.

I was originally talking about why Cardinal Zollitsch and others have not been ferendae lententiae excommunicated from the Church. You said (see bolded part):

(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

So I maybe I read it wrong, but I thought you were saying that, pre-VII, other Cardinals "did worse things" and they weren't excommunicated either. Then you gave examples. So I questioned if those "bad things" included heresy. You said "no" for Billot but then indicated that Bernardin had. So I was just saying that his alleged profession of heresy didn't come until after there was a trend of noncondemnation by the competent authority.

I am sorry if that is confusing, and I might have misread what you were saying, but I hope that this explains what I was saying.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Augstine Baker - 12-31-2009

(12-31-2009, 09:54 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 09:12 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 08:55 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 08:28 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

You're welcome.

Yes, and he wasn't cardinal until February 2, 1983. Was he ever ferendae sententiae excommunicated? I can't find where he was. Again, why not?

What does the date of his becoming Cardinal have to do with anything?   No.  And I have no idea who you're talking about.  If you're talking about +Bernardine, it's probably because he was implicated heavily in the Banco Ambrosiano scandal, covering up his predecessor Cardinal Cody's tracks, since Cody was involved in the money laundering going on between +Marcinkus and his Chicago contacts.

I was originally talking about why Cardinal Zollitsch and others have not been ferendae lententiae excommunicated from the Church. You said (see bolded part):

(12-31-2009, 04:00 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-31-2009, 11:07 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The last Cardinal who was demoted was Cardinal Billot around 70 years ago and there were men both before and after who have done worse than what he did.
the wishes

What sins someone commits does not always mean they have professed heresy. Cardinal Zollitsch has publically professed heresy. Was Cardinal Billot denying dogmas of the Church?

Actually Cardinal Billot didn't say anything heretical, unlike say, someone like Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago who attacked Scriptural inerrancy by saying that the Gospel of St. John shouldn't be definitive for fear of offending the Jews.  Cardinal Billot didn't think that Action Francaise deserved
papal condemnation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Billot.

So I maybe I read it wrong, but I thought you were saying that, pre-VII, other Cardinals "did worse things" and they weren't excommunicated either. Then you gave examples. So I questioned if those "bad things" included heresy. You said "no" for Billot but then indicated that Bernardin had. So I was just saying that his alleged profession of heresy didn't come until after there was a trend of noncondemnation by the competent authority.

I am sorry if that is confusing, and I might have misread what you were saying, but I hope that this explains what I was saying.

No problem, I think I understand now.  Well, Cardinal Bernardine denied the inerrancy of scripture, which is heresy, among other things.  Cardinal Cusa was a kind of universalist back in the 16th Century, and lesser men were burned at the stake for that or things like it at that time.  Cardinal Richlieau created the modern nation state of France against the interests of the Papacy, and those are a few examples I can think of.  There must be some kind of special protection once you're "made" as a Cardinal and it's very hard to be unmade.  As I said, the only one who was unmade was Cardinal Billot who didn't even do anything heretical, just supported the Action Francaise, which may have been heretical against the wishes of the Holy Father, Pius XI.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Schonborn hasn't been punished in ways we're not aware.  I can't imagine he thinks he's going to be the next Pope.  That ain't going to happen.  Initially, I think Benedict wanted him to be Pope instead, but the news got out about his seminary that was basically a gay bathhouse getwaway, and he was blamed for it.... so no Papacy.  So, now, he's probably thinkiing he wants to spoil the well.  I believe he's a very evil man, and probably a freemason as well.


Re: Cardinal Schonborn offers mass/speaks at Medjugorje - Augstine Baker - 01-01-2010

They're suggesting that Schonborn is spying...

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5059