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Re: i went to a tlm today... - In nomine Patris - 01-01-2010

"2nd most beautiful thing this side of heaven"....hmmm...whats the 1st?


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Melkite - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 09:00 PM)Credo Wrote:
Melkite Wrote:as a loyal melkite catholic

Melkite, do you know of any resources on the Eastern Rites for those who know next to nothing about the Eastern Churches?
  i was going to suggest byzcath.org, but i rarely ever look at it because it is from a ruthenian perspective, and they tend to be more latinized than the melkites.  there's a fine line in authentic eastern catholicism that is hard to perceive unless you have been in it for a while.  on the one side of that line, you have latinized parishes that don't seem to much care about prefering the eastern ways over the imported latin ones, and on the other side you have those who are bitter and angry at rome, and who idolize the orthodox to the point that they are often de facto schismatic, if not de jure.  my best suggestion is to find an authentic eastern parish and visit a few sundays.  there are few truly good ones, ones that are able to stay on that fine median line of authenticity, in this country.  if you tell me what state you're in i can try to find a good one for you.  things to look for in a good parish would be having vespers on saturday evening and orthros or matins before liturgy sunday morning.  and also only one liturgy on sundays.  you'd be surprised how many parishes will have a liturgy on saturday evening and two or three liturgies sunday morning, and no vespers or orthros at all.  another question is, during lent, do they have akathist on fridays, or do they have stations of the cross?  and, this may seem trivial, but does the priest have a beard or is he clean shaven?  all of these will show whether the priest and parish are committed to an authentic eastern parish life or are more or less indifferent.  of course, those signs only weed out the latinized parishes.  fortunately, though, at least in my experience, latinization can be a parish wide problem, but borderline schism is usually only an individual problem.


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Melkite - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 09:15 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: "2nd most beautiful thing this side of heaven"....hmmm...whats the 1st?
  divine liturgy of st. John chrysostom.  imho, of course.


Re: i went to a tlm today... - INPEFESS - 01-01-2010

(01-01-2010, 09:28 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-01-2010, 09:15 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: "2nd most beautiful thing this side of heaven"....hmmm...whats the 1st?
  divine liturgy of st. John chrysostom.  imho, of course.


Haha! I was going to say that but I decided to give you the honor of doing so.


Re: i went to a tlm today... - trident59 - 01-01-2010

And here is a Byzantine (Slovak) site.  www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/index.html

found it fascinating.


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Joshua - 01-02-2010

(01-01-2010, 07:37 PM)Credo Wrote:
Melkite Wrote:it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

Preferences aside, the revised missal - the "Novus Ordo Missae" - is an authentic element of the Latin Rite.

Would you care to define what you mean by this, Credo? It is a valid Mass certainly, but it most certainly is not an "authentic element" of the Latin Rite by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want to de-rail this thread, so we can take it to PM if you wish ...?

In Corde Regis,
Joshua


Re: i went to a tlm today... - INPEFESS - 01-02-2010

(01-02-2010, 01:03 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(01-01-2010, 07:37 PM)Credo Wrote:
Melkite Wrote:it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

Preferences aside, the revised missal - the "Novus Ordo Missae" - is an authentic element of the Latin Rite.

Would you care to define what you mean by this, Credo? It is a valid Mass certainly, but it most certainly is not an "authentic element" of the Latin Rite by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want to de-rail this thread, so we can take it to PM if you wish ...?

In Corde Regis,
Joshua

:safe:


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Resurrexi - 01-02-2010

(01-01-2010, 06:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: it wasn't my first, but it turned out to be a solemn high mass, which i think is my first for that.  wow!  there was no instrumentation, all gregorian chant except for three hymns.  as a loyal melkite catholic, i can honestly say the solemn high mass is the second most beautiful thing this side of heaven! ;)  it is plain to see that this is the authentic roman liturgy, why anyone would prefer a novus ordo mass is beyond me.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Historian - 01-02-2010

Vox used to have an Eastern Rite subforum here, but the Orthodox kept trolling for converts in PM.  After they unfortunately got a few, she killed it.

Maybe we can bring it back someday.  Being a trad and abused by the Neo-Catholics has given me an appreciation for how Eastern Rite Catholics have been abused by Latin Rite Catholics over the years.  Especially the prejudice against married priests in the Eastern Rites.  I think all of us would be well-served learning more about our Eastern-Rite brothers and sisters and their authentic Apostolic Traditions as well.

I'll mention it to Vox if people are interested, but I will assume that if it is brought back there would be harsh rules concerning the discussion of the Orthodox Churches to avoid a repeat of the previous problem.


Re: i went to a tlm today... - Melkite - 01-02-2010

i like that idea.  for those who converted, it was probably only a matter of time anyway.  i used to be in the same boat, near idolizing the orthodox and wondering why i should bother remaining catholic if i was so sure the orthodox were right.  so i became an orthodox catechumen, and just before i was supposed to be chrismated, the issue of the papacy came up im my mind.  the orthodox understanding just wasn't sitting right with me.  so i looked into it and found that, while the view wasn't unanimous, there were a lot of eastern fathers who saw the bishop of rome as the only sure guaranteur of church unity and that if you were not in communion with him, you were not in the church.  that was enough to keep me catholic.  since then, the issue of divorce has really bothered me.  the orthodox, frankly, are guilty of nothing less than condoning church-sanctioned adultery.  add in that some jurisdictions accept catholic baptisms and others don't, just the canonical mess that that leaves, and it becomes clear there is no solid orthodox church, but rather a loose confederation of churches whose only unity is the liturgy and its rejection of rome.  once you get past the romanticization of orthodoxy, catholicism is the only viable option for the true eastern christian.  the ones who seriously seek the truth will remain catholic, and the ones who get snatched away by the orthodox can only do so by ignorance, and that usually willful.