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A question on the origin of the soul. - Clovis - 02-28-2010

I got out a book from the Novus Ordo Central Catholic Libarary here which is good in that it has a lot of old books called "A manual of the history of Dogmas Volume II" by a Rev Bernard J. Otten S.J. (it was published in 1918) in which states the opinion that souls are formed from the substance of the parents in a similar manner to the way bodies are as opposed to being seperately created and than infused by God into the body is a heretical opinion condemned by the Church. This greatly surprised me as it has been the opinion I have always held since I first learned that the pre-existence of souls was a heresy (St Augustine, Tertullian and I believe also St Gregory of Nyssa aswell as others who I cant think of off hand also believed this). I had read before that this matter hadnt been decided by the Church.

Do you have any views and/or knowledge in this regard?

"For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedech met him."

Hebrews 7:10 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)


Re: A question on the origin of the soul. - SCG - 02-28-2010

Isn't the creationist theory (that God creates each individual soul at the moment of conception) and the traducianist theory ( that each soul is derived, along with the body, from the parents) both acceptable? Is either one really a heresy?

I view the soul as being "pre-existent" in the sense that it is a "thought" in the eternal mind of God.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." (Jeremiah 1:5)

That's not the same as saying the soul is divine or "part of God." God forms or speaks us into being at the moment of our conception. That's how I see it.


Re: A question on the origin of the soul. - glgas - 02-28-2010

(02-28-2010, 10:53 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Isn't the creationist theory (that God creates each individual soul at the moment of conception) and the traducianist theory ( that each soul is derived, along with the body, from the parents) both acceptable? Is either one really a heresy?

If the soul is transduced from the parents,  that have to be done in the time of conception, but a more probably theory is that God creates each individual immortal soul sometimes after the fertilization of the egg, when the flesh is ready to be united with the immortal soul.

The souls in God's mind in themselves are virtual, as the human being is virtual in the egg in the ovary of a woman, does not exists.

The agruments for creation after the conception are:

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Rational argument is that 2 out of three fertilized eggs cannot stick to the womb and leave the body of the women in the first 10 weeks of the pregnancy. What would be eternal fate of their immortal soul.

The original sin comes from the flesh, not from the immortal soul, so the Immaculate Conception does not carry any message related to the time of creation of the immortal soul.

and the word incarnatus (sarchothenta) of the  Nicean creed:

And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary  (assumed flesh, not immediatelly the whole human nature)
and was made man;  (assumed the unity with whole human nature, having flesh and soul)
was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried;  (suffered and died)