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Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Printable Version

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Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Historian - 03-28-2010

:safe:


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Gerard - 03-28-2010

(03-28-2010, 04:43 AM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(03-28-2010, 01:42 AM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(03-27-2010, 08:47 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Okay, I can see the advantages of  boys and girls being educated separately when possible. But what exactly is Bp Williamson saying? Is he saying that women shouldn't take an interest in affairs outside of the home?

No, He's saying that they shouldn't be in charge of them.

What do you think about that? Do you think that's right?

I can see how a woman who's married and has children has a primary obligation to her husband and family, and I'd agree this obligation is ideally met by staying home. Realistically though, that's not always financially possible.

I can't see how it's wrong for a single woman to become involved in activities outside the home. And if she does a good job, well why can't she be put in charge of things? She's earned it.

The Bishop's overarching theme is about retaining the essential nature of masculinity and femininity.  He would encourage any woman to do anything necessary but never at the cost of her feminity.  A nurse in charge of nurses he would have no trouble with.  His problem comes when women engage in careers at the expense of their feminity.  He also has problems with men sacrificing their masculinity.  He knows practical situations make less than ideal circumstances, but he does not want us to forget the ideal or to stop working for it. 

Self identification with the essence of one's gender is of the utmost importance in our relationship with God's decision to create us a certain way, this affects, the home, the Church, the society and the salvation of souls in the long run. 

Men and women can do some jobs the same and retain their masculinity or femininity.  I use Rachel Ray and Alton Brown of examples in cooking.  The whole enterprise is geared by each one according to their natures even though they are doing the same things. 

Some jobs women just do better, Nurturing, teaching small children, nursing, any job that has a fundamentally important aspect of nurturing. 

Men do some jobs that women seriously should not do, combat military, police work, firefighting, some less dangerous but more fundementally masculine, lumbarjack, metalwork, plumbing, carpentry. 

Women and Men can be trained to do a lot of those jobs but it often takes a toll on their nature. 



Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - JacafamalaRedux - 03-28-2010

Put that way it's pretty true, Gerard.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Iolanthe - 03-28-2010

(03-24-2010, 01:31 PM)Anastasia Wrote: Of course, what are we to do with Queen Isabella, Queen St. Margaret of Scotland, and Queen Blanche of France if women should neither be seen nor heard in public affairs?

Exactly. Not to mention countless women in the past who ran entire households made up of male and female servants. Really, Bishop Williamson is living in his own head. I can't even get upset about his nonsense anymore.

Sorry, Piabee. No ten pages here.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Gerard - 03-28-2010

(03-28-2010, 08:34 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(03-24-2010, 01:31 PM)Anastasia Wrote: Of course, what are we to do with Queen Isabella, Queen St. Margaret of Scotland, and Queen Blanche of France if women should neither be seen nor heard in public affairs?

Exactly. Not to mention countless women in the past who ran entire households made up of male and female servants. Really, Bishop Williamson is living in his own head. I can't even get upset about his nonsense anymore.

Sorry, Piabee. No ten pages here.


You can't say Bishop W is wrong about a woman's skills in running a household when he says that running a household (no matter the size) is perfectly fitted to her femininity. 

As far as famous women exhibiting skills in traditional male roles, God often raises these women as a lesson for men who have failed in their duties.  Joan of Arc was raised to humble men who were not worthy to lead as men.  And the Godly women raised to these roles never abandoned their essential femininity. 

Cheap, curt dismissals of what the bishop says are simply knee jerk reactions from people who are incompetent in understanding the common sense he's bringing to the fore in this confused time.   


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Iolanthe - 03-28-2010

He goes out of his way to make the point that woman should not be "in public life," and in doing so he ignores all the women in history who have lived their lives in positions of authority while clearly following God's will. Bishop Williamson is not using common sense, and shouldn't be treated as such. I'm as "competent" at understanding his point as the next person; I just don't agree with it, and I feel strongly that he is making an already confusing subject even more confusing for many people.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - JayneK - 03-28-2010

Very good article by Bishop W!  It is a pleasure to read such good sense.  It is comforting to know that, even in these confused times, some people can understand and explain how things ought to be.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Iolanthe - 03-28-2010

(03-27-2010, 05:45 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: I agree with Gerard's take based on my school experience.

I also agree with +W in this sense:

Men, especially the anti-feminist variety,  have this hypocrisy:  they want to be the public leaders, but they don't want to work for it, then they blame women for taking over.  If one thinks men should be the public leaders then stop whining and start working.  God's not going to sit around and wait.  When men stop doing what they're supposed to do, God will send the graces to a woman to take over.  Cf. Saint Catherine of Sienna giving the Pope a kick in the butt as well as many Catholic queens who kept their countries Catholic in spite of the men doing nothing.

This is also true within the family - if the father shirks his responsibility, the mother doesn't have to sit back and take it.  She could - and should - take it upon herself to Catechize the kids, etc., because our responsibility is to God first, then the spouse.

With leadership comes responsibility.  If we don't live up to the responsibility, then we lose the leadership.  Men in the past 30-40 years haven't lived up to much, so it's no surprise that God takes good women and gives them additional graces to do what men are slacking at.

Bottom line: if one doesn't like the current trend, stop whining, start working, and most importantly, behave in an honorable manner towards women.  Being a tyrant (gimme a sammich) is not being a leader in the Catholic sense of the word.

Great post. Can't help feeling that it's much better than the article itself.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - JayneK - 03-28-2010

(03-28-2010, 08:58 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: He goes out of his way to make the point that woman should not be "in public life," and in doing so he ignores all the women in history who have lived their lives in positions of authority while clearly following God's will.

I thought he addressed this with his comment about women flowing into the vacuum left by men who do not take on their responsibilities.  He was saying that good women may be reluctantly forced into positions of public leadership and authority by circumstances but that this is not the ideal.  This seemed very clear, as well as true, to me.


Re: Bp W Column 3-20: Virile Distress - Iolanthe - 03-28-2010

(03-28-2010, 09:18 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-28-2010, 08:58 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: He goes out of his way to make the point that woman should not be "in public life," and in doing so he ignores all the women in history who have lived their lives in positions of authority while clearly following God's will.

I thought he addressed this with his comment about women flowing into the vacuum left by men who do not take on their responsibilities.  He was saying that good women may be reluctantly forced into positions of public leadership and authority by circumstances but that this is not the ideal.  This seemed very clear, as well as true, to me.

That may be true in some situations, but there are plenty of cases where a woman will hold a position of authority without filling a void left by men.