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Creation and Evolution - INPEFESS - 04-08-2010

According to some evolutionists (and indeed some Christians), the biblical account of creation and (macro)evolution are completely reconcilable. It is only certain evolutionists who have "abused" and perverted the theory in an attempt to prove the non-existence of God. These creation-evolutionists top off their arguments by pointing out that Darwin, himself, was a Christian.

If we consider this portion of Genesis, that the creation story and evolution are harmonious seems logical (bearing in mind, of course, that evolution does not treat of the creation of the world):

Genesis, Chapter 1 Wrote:11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done. 12 And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: 15 To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.

16 And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night: and the stars. 17 And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. 18 And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and morning were the fourth day. 20 God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.

21 And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth. 23 And the evening and morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. 27 And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. 29 And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: 30 And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done.

31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

The "acceptance" of this reconciliation is contingent on the interpretion that the days referenced in Scripture were not 24 hour periods as we know them, but rather eons, each composed of many, many eras. These evolutionists argue that each eon would be defined by a new stage of evolutionary development. But allow us to consider the troubling part:

Genesis, Chapter 2 Wrote:1 So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the furniture of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made: and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. 3 And he blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth: 5 And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth, and every herb of the ground before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth; and there was not a man to till the earth.

6 But a spring rose out of the earth, watering all the surface of the earth. 7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul. 8 And the Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed man whom he had formed. 9 And the Lord God brought forth of the ground all manner of trees, fair to behold, and pleasant to eat of: the tree of life also in the midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river went out of the place of pleasure to water paradise, which from thence is divided into four heads.

11 The name of the one is Phison: that is it which compasseth all the land of Hevilath, where gold groweth. 12 And the gold of that land is very good: there is found bdellium, and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gehon: the same is it that compasseth all the land of Ethiopia. 14 And the name of the third river is Tigris: the same passeth along by the Assyrians. And the fourth river is Euphrates. 15 And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it.

16 And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat: 17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death. 18 And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself. 19 And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name. 20 And Adam called all the beasts by their names, and all the fowls of the air, and all the cattle of the field: but for Adam there was not found a helper like himself.

21 Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. 22 And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam. 23 And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man. 24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh. 25 And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.

How do these evolutionists reconcile the creation of Eve with the theory of evolution? If the alleles of Adam's ancestral primates expressed themselves such that the DNA of primates and humans is 95% (+/-1) identical, then why wouldn't God take Eve from the female primates in the same manner that He had taken Adam?

How do these evolutionists answer this question? Any thoughts?


Re: Creation and Evolution - Thacrow - 04-08-2010

Well Adam has both X and Y chromosomes.  So two X's could be taken from Adam to get a girl which I would think would e the real recociliation view.


Re: Creation and Evolution - INPEFESS - 04-08-2010

(04-08-2010, 08:49 PM)Thacrow Wrote: Well Adam has both X and Y chromosomes.  So two X's could be taken from Adam to get a girl which I would think would e the real recociliation view.

Taken from Adam how? Was he asexual? If he was asexual, then shouldn't his ancestral primates have been asexual, too?


Re: Creation and Evolution - Thacrow - 04-13-2010

Adam's semen are either X or Y.  All womens eggs are X's.  So depending on which sperm gets to the egg it becomes female(XX) or male (XY).  Take two X's from adam and you got a girl.  If a whole rib was taken there's enough DNA there to make a lot of people.  Lets say the rib was taken just to harvest DNA.  Maybe it's a really good source of DNA.

I assume that any religious-evolutionist theory would have God creating Eve just as he did Adam, but from Adam as opposed to creating Adam out of nothing but from His image.  Eve would not be born as Adam was not born.

Then again I don't know the story very well, I'm assuming here that Adam was not born from anything.

Furthermore Eve would have to be made as an adult or about what ever age Adam is.  If they are going to populate the world you can't have an adult Adam waiting around until newborn Eve is old enough to have kids.  People didn't live long enough back then.  Adam may have died before Eve could pop enough out.


Re: Creation and Evolution - Thacrow - 04-13-2010

OR

Lets say Adam was asexual and then humans evolved out of being asexual.


Problem solved in far less words.


Re: Creation and Evolution - Vetus Ordo - 04-13-2010

There's also other problems, like the fact that death entered the world because of sin. There's no amount of lipservice to evolution that can "reconcile" that.


Re: Creation and Evolution - Thacrow - 04-13-2010

(04-13-2010, 05:18 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: There's also other problems, like the fact that death entered the world because of sin. There's no amount of lipservice to evolution that can "reconcile" that.

Maybe it means that people's bad choices got them killed.

Drinking and driving can get you and others killed.

You are safer leading a virtuous life.

Before there was sin and death did animals die?  And then after sin how do they die or can they sin?  Or is this passage specifically refer to humans?


Re: Creation and Evolution - INPEFESS - 04-13-2010

(04-13-2010, 02:55 AM)Thacrow Wrote: Adam's semen are either X or Y.  All womens eggs are X's.  So depending on which sperm gets to the egg it becomes female(XX) or male (XY).  Take two X's from adam and you got a girl.  If a whole rib was taken there's enough DNA there to make a lot of people.  Lets say the rib was taken just to harvest DNA.  Maybe it's a really good source of DNA.

I'm sorry, but I'm very confused. The rib was taken by whom to do what and how?

If God did that, why would He need DNA? He didn't need DNA to create the first living organism; why would He need it to create woman?

If God didn't, then what does a rib do for procreation?

Quote:I assume that any religious-evolutionist theory would have God creating Eve just as he did Adam, but from Adam as opposed to creating Adam out of nothing but from His image.  Eve would not be born as Adam was not born.

Yes, that's the closest I can guess.

Quote:Then again I don't know the story very well, I'm assuming here that Adam was not born from anything.

Well, the theory is that Adam was the link at the end of the evolutionary chain. He is a direct decendent of his ancestors but experienced a dramatic mutation that separated him from prehistoric man (homo sapiens as they were before history recorded them). God sets him apart from all other creatures and breathes into him a soul. So yes, according to the theory, he is born, but from an animal (because they were all animals in the beginning). He receives a soul at the point of his conception and "becomes man" at this moment. So Adam has no human mother and father.

Quote:Furthermore Eve would have to be made as an adult or about what ever age Adam is.  If they are going to populate the world you can't have an adult Adam waiting around until newborn Eve is old enough to have kids.  People didn't live long enough back then.  Adam may have died before Eve could pop enough out.

Well of course. In Genesis, God brings Eve to Adam to show Adam what He has made. God tells Adam that she is his wife.


Re: Creation and Evolution - Thacrow - 04-13-2010

I have no idea why on any of those it's just an idea of how the things mixed together based on what we have to work with.


Re: Creation and Evolution - glgas - 04-17-2010

(04-13-2010, 02:55 AM)Thacrow Wrote: I assume that any religious-evolutionist theory would have God creating Eve just as he did Adam, but from Adam as opposed to creating Adam out of nothing but from His image.  Eve would not be born as Adam was not born.

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Adam's body was not created out of nothing, only his soul. Eve also had individually created soul. The moral of her story is that the two are one body together, the key for any good marriage.