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Clergy Response Teams - Credo - 07-22-2010

Listen up. This is scary.

Story: Clergy to be used to quell dissent - http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=43107

















Do you believe that Catholic clergy are more, less or equally susceptible to the government commandeering to clerics than Protestants? How about other faith groups in America?


Re: Clergy Response Teams - glgas - 07-22-2010

(07-22-2010, 12:34 PM)Credo Wrote: Listen up. This is scary.

Story: Clergy to be used to quell dissent - http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=43107

Do you believe that Catholic clergy are more, less or equally susceptible to the government commandeering to clerics than Protestants? How about other faith groups in America?

It was the typical Marxist thesis, that the primary reason for religion is to make people subservient for any request of the ruling power. They explicitly (and mostly unsuccessfully)  required the clergy to serve their goals.

The armies of martyrs in the ancient time proves otherwise, they were martyred for denying the request of the ruling power.

Here are the norms from Noldin, composed in the time of the Third Reich and the Stalinism.

The ruling power has right to levy taxes, to enlist young men to the military, and to keep the external and internal order by laws, Anything above that (wars to defend the interest of third party states, intrusion into moral issues, controlling the right to the parents to educate their children in their faith etc, anything contrary to the natural law) is abuse of the govermental power. 


Re: Clergy Response Teams - Credo - 07-22-2010

glgas Wrote:The armies of martyrs in the ancient time proves otherwise, they were martyred for denying the request of the ruling power.

I agree that Catholicism - rightly understood and lived - is a terror to despots.

May I play Devil's Advocate, however? Can't we say that the "armies of martyrs" comprised of Orthodox, Protestant and Islamic saints - all belonging to movements which Catholics would say have nationalistic/despotic tendencies - necessarily disproves the above thesis? Bilal may have been tortured with a rock on his chest, but that doesn't stop the Saudi Mutaween (i.e.: Islamic police) from keeping the Arabs loyal to the House of Saud. John Wyclif might have been burnt at the stake, but that didn't stop the Anglican Church from giving moral justification for British Colonialism.


Re: Clergy Response Teams - glgas - 07-22-2010

(07-22-2010, 03:01 PM)Credo Wrote: May I play Devil's Advocate, however? Can't we say that the "armies of martyrs" comprised of Orthodox, Protestant and Islamic saints - all belonging to movements which Catholics would say have nationalistic/despotic tendencies - necessarily disproves the above thesis? Bilal may have been tortured with a rock on his chest, but that doesn't stop the Saudi Mutaween (i.e.: Islamic police) from keeping the Arabs loyal to the House of Saud. John Wyclif might have been burnt at the stake, but that didn't stop the Anglican Church from giving moral justification for British Colonialism.

The Christian martyrs in the ancient times were offered the choice: either deny their faith and obey the law, or die under torture. The point is the choice, and the clarity of the faith.

The protestant and later Catholic martyrs had no choice, they were killed, because the power considered their presence a treat. They had no choice.

The recent Muslim suicide bombers wage a war against invaders. Their reason is not religious, it is the freedom of their people.

My point is that the extent of just governmental power is very limited, and the Church never wanted servile obedience




Re: Clergy Response Teams - Credo - 07-22-2010

glgas Wrote:My point is that the extent of just governmental power is very limited, and the Church never wanted servile obedience

Quite true. Thanks.