FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
If there were no God - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Archives (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Theology and Philosophy (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: If there were no God (/showthread.php?tid=38217)

Pages: 1 2


If there were no God - ketchum - 08-12-2010

would we have virtue?


I heard that question asked on the film Lilith.


Re: If there were no God - Louis_Martin - 08-12-2010

If there were no God there would be no.
Just no.
Because even the concept of the possibility of existence would have no root.


Re: If there were no God - ketchum - 08-12-2010

Let's just say there were no God however the world and we did exist. what then?



Your answer is really good by the way.


Re: If there were no God - INPEFESS - 08-12-2010

(08-12-2010, 09:42 PM)ketchum Wrote: Let's just say there were no God however the world and we did exist. what then?

That is even harder to conceptualize than the Trinity, infinity, or God's essence.

Still, the answer would be "no". And I say this because God is good, and all good comes from God. If God does not exist, then neither can the good, for the good only exists because God exists. If good does not exist, then neither can virtue, for virtue subsists in good action.

ETA: Moreover, good is a presence rather than an absence. Evil is not a presence, but an absence. Therefore, the absence of good is evil. If God is all good, then the absence of God would mean the absence of good, and, therefore, the absence of virtue.


Re: If there were no God - Antonius Josephus - 08-12-2010

Indeed, there would be nothing - nothing at all if God did not exist.

But for the sake of argument, no, there would be no morality. We would have no concept of morality, as we would be no better than the animals. Without God to guide us in moral behavior (and assuming no devil exists to tempt us into evil), we'd be animals, and we probably would be extinct, or at least practically non-existent.


Re: If there were no God - ketchum - 08-13-2010

Thank you, everyone!


Re: If there were no God - Historian - 08-14-2010

(08-12-2010, 09:40 PM)ketchum Wrote: would we have virtue?


I heard that question asked on the film Lilith.

This question cannot be answered, but the answer is that all that is good is from God, therefore, without God (not if God didn't exist) there is no good. Virtue in this sense would be Satanic, ie, self centred. It would be relative to oneself.


Re: If there were no God - DesperatelySeeking - 08-14-2010

As an analogue, look at animals.  Lacking reason and a soul, they lack morality and virtue.  It is not just silly to call a cat "evil" for eating a mouse, it's utterly meaningless.

A shark can't be called evil for eating a swimmer, nor a scorpion for stinging....these creatures act according to instinct.  While part of the created order, and therefore inherently good, as all things created by God are good, they do not - cannot - act in any way that can accurately be called either "virtuous" or "evil".

So, for the sake or argument, if God did not exist, but the world & Man still did somehow, Man could not be considered as "virtuous".....he'd be just another brute.  Not unlike the guy who let his girlfriend get hit by the baseball.  ;D

It's further possible to assume that a God-less humanity might develop basic reasoning as a survival skill, and also practice certain altruistic acts as a means of survival (e.g., division of labor and sharing of food).  However, this would not be virtue, in the absence of God.


Re: If there were no God - Vetus Ordo - 08-14-2010

(08-14-2010, 11:27 AM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: As an analogue, look at animals.  Lacking reason and a soul, they lack morality and virtue.

They lack reason, but they have a soul that animates their bodies, albeit a mortal one.


Re: If there were no God - DesperatelySeeking - 08-14-2010

(08-14-2010, 11:55 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(08-14-2010, 11:27 AM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: As an analogue, look at animals.  Lacking reason and a soul, they lack morality and virtue.

They lack reason, but they have a soul that animates their bodies, albeit a mortal one.

I don't believe that is the case; there was some discussion on this in a dedicated thread a while back, let me see if I can dig it up and cross-post.