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Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Vetus Ordo - 08-16-2010

He killed himself?

I didn't know that.


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - The Catholic Thinker - 08-16-2010

(08-16-2010, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: He killed himself?

I didn't know that.

I think the implication is that it was an accident.


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Vetus Ordo - 08-16-2010

(08-16-2010, 08:35 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(08-16-2010, 08:05 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: He killed himself?

I didn't know that.

I think the implication is that it was an accident.

Ah, I see. It makes sense.


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Credo - 08-16-2010

I can't believe Catholics can intellectually countenance websites like the one cited in the original post. That the authors of "Luther, Exposing the Myth" * chose the most unattractive depiction of Martin Luther at the head of the page should have been a dead giveaway of the site's worth. The oversimplification in the "Christ taught"/""Luther taught" set-up should have raised alarms as well. The very least the website creators could have done was give a synopsis of the larger context's of Christ's and Luther's respective quotes.



* N.B.: Always avoid books, articles, websites and have "exposing," "the truth about," "the real X"; they likely to be trash scholarship.

StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:Does anyone have details about Luther's death? One of the priests on EWTN yesterday said that Luther asked for a priest on his deathbed, but died while the priest was climbing the stairs, before he could reach him!

But I don't know if the story is true. It was the first time I heard anything like that.

and

Arun Wrote:Reminds me of the story of Voltaire, where he begged for a priest, and one arrived, but his friends and associates physically prevented the priest from reaching him...

If I may quote Christopher Hitchens on this one, "The faithful love to circulate deathbed conversion stories."


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - SCG - 08-16-2010

(08-16-2010, 10:29 PM)Credo Wrote: I can't believe Catholics can intellectually countenance websites like the one cited in the original post. That the authors of "Luther, Exposing the Myth" * chose the most unattractive depiction of Martin Luther at the head of the page should have been a dead giveaway of the site's worth. The oversimplification in the "Christ taught"/""Luther taught" set-up should have raised alarms as well. The very least the website creators could have done was give a synopsis of the larger context's of Christ's and Luther's respective quotes.



* N.B.: Always avoid books, articles, websites and have "exposing," "the truth about," "the real X"; they likely to be trash scholarship.

StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:Does anyone have details about Luther's death? One of the priests on EWTN yesterday said that Luther asked for a priest on his deathbed, but died while the priest was climbing the stairs, before he could reach him!

But I don't know if the story is true. It was the first time I heard anything like that.

and

Arun Wrote:Reminds me of the story of Voltaire, where he begged for a priest, and one arrived, but his friends and associates physically prevented the priest from reaching him...

If I may quote Christopher Hitchens on this one, "The faithful love to circulate deathbed conversion stories."

Is there anything wrong with that? I'm only repeating what I heard a priest say on EWTN. If we circulate deathbed conversion stories maybe it's because we hope to get some confirmation that it's true.


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - The Catholic Thinker - 08-16-2010

(08-16-2010, 10:29 PM)Credo Wrote: I can't believe Catholics can intellectually countenance websites like the one cited in the original post. That the authors of "Luther, Exposing the Myth" * chose the most unattractive depiction of Martin Luther at the head of the page should have been a dead giveaway of the site's worth. The oversimplification in the "Christ taught"/""Luther taught" set-up should have raised alarms as well. The very least the website creators could have done was give a synopsis of the larger context's of Christ's and Luther's respective quotes.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Vetus Ordo - 08-17-2010

(08-16-2010, 10:29 PM)Credo Wrote: If I may quote Christopher Hitchens on this one, "The faithful love to circulate deathbed conversion stories."

While some stories may be false or even fabricated, many more are true. These stories remind us of God's grace who can convert even the most wretched of sinners.

Hitchens' wisecrack reveals his obsession with religion and your wisecrak reveals your obsession with Hitchens.


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - SCG - 08-17-2010

I'm still waiting for Washington's deathbed conversion to be confirmed - and his vision of the Virgin Mary.

Our Lady of Valley Forge, ora pro nobis!!! 


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Resurrexi - 08-17-2010

(08-16-2010, 10:29 PM)Credo Wrote: If I may quote Christopher Hitchens on this one, "The faithful love to circulate deathbed conversion stories."

What's wrong with hoping that some otherwise lost souls may have been saved in their last moments?


Re: Could it possibly be more obvious - Credo - 08-17-2010

StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:Is there anything wrong with that?

No, not if the events described jive with history.

One approaches deathbed conversion stories with hesitation, however, for two reasons:
1) They always involve perceived enemies of Christianity [e.g.: Paine, Voltaire, Darwin, Luther, and Stalin (in one manner)]. In other words, these deathbed stories allow the Christian audience to say a post-mortem "gottcha,"
2) As far as my reading goes, these tales are only reported by religious writers. As religious conversion is a major paradigm shift, one should find these happenings reported by secular biographers. They are not.