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+--- Thread: In Defence of Islam (/showthread.php?tid=38874)
Re: In Defence of Islam - Credo - 09-17-2010
devotedknuckles Wrote:Wht does your sig from mohamet say to Catholics? I want to know what you are trying to say
The quote from Mohammed is not addressed to Catholics. The phrase is a general plea to value the life of the mind. I don't think most Christians do this enough, and most Muslims - and atheists, Jews, etc. - don't either.
Re: In Defence of Islam - MetallicaFan - 09-18-2010
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: metalicfAn wroteOh that. Well that is its name; The Holy Quran. That doesn't mean I think it is holy. In the same way the Bible is called the Holy Bible, but I dont think it is Holy either. Also you can write 1 million books and still be an dumb as when you wrote your first.
"I didn't say it was." reffering to my post stating the vile Koran is not holy
metalicafan said in post 32 of this very thread
"My sources were the Holy Quran"
dk says
I think that's clear As Chrystal. I wonT back off I've been here for over 12 thousand posts no no lad im just fine being here to challang u on your bullshit. When u get to 12 thousand posts then I'll give u an attaboy
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: metalicafan wroteNo, you cant. That makes no sense.
"Well I consider Jesus the first and last father of the church."
Dk says
U may consider Christ the first and last father of the church but to those who belie Christ to be The messiah he is much much much more
metalicafan wrote
Who is Mullah bin credo?
Dk says
Mullah bin credo is the tanks resedent imam
bellum sacram does not negate loving your enemy. U can fight the enembof Christ and still love them.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: So much so It is an act of charity to fight them to qoute st Bernard of clairvauxLOL! Sorry but jihad actually, when created was a a theory of just war that, as you show, was not created by Christians until a few hundred years after.
“But the Knights of Christ may safely fight the battles of their Lord, fearing neither sin if they smite the enemy, nor danger at their own death; since to inflict death or to die for Christ is no sin, but rather, an abundant claim to glory. In the first case one gains for Christ, and in the second one gains Christ himself. The Lord freely accepts the death of the foe who has offended him, and yet more freely gives himself for the consolation of his fallen knight.”i
Metalicafan said
I know the origins of western just war theory. You realize jihad is just war theory that was create many hundreds of years before? Again all the crusades were unjustified, including the reconquesta, which actually left people living extremely worse off than they were living under the Muslim regimes.
dk says
jehad is never justified.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: What rubbish!! Listen to yourself!!! fighting against Christ is never justified!!Who said it against Christa? jihad is not about fighting against any religion - it is simply just war. There is no such thing in the Quran as holy war. Christianity conceived that concept during the first crusade. In Islam there is only just and unjust war, no God ordained wars.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: according to the church which for those here has more authority then you the crusades were justified as well as the reconquesta.And yet there was no evidence for that 'justification'. LOL Well live ignorantly if you want, I certainly will not.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: As for SpainActually within the Caliphate of the South all people prospered. Indeed the Caliph had a Jewish adviser! It was only after the crusader Spanish arrived that all that was lost.
being better off under the vile mohamadan yoke spaniards and Spanish history disagrees with you.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Spains glory was and is catholic not barbourus mohamadan.So? You realize you can be Catholic had still be wrong, and still commit crime, and still be evil? Which is exactly what the Spanish did.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Rubbish u believe but u probably also belive christ was a ninja tooNope, I beleive Jesus was the son of God.
(09-15-2010, 07:51 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: I need to break me reply up
sip
more later
Ok.
Re: In Defence of Islam - MetallicaFan - 09-18-2010
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Back at itWhen did I say I deny the holy ghost. Also you have not answered my point. Clearly you have no answer, hence you divert. Again, how cna you sjutify war when Jesus said; "Again Jesus said "turn the other cheek", "love thy enemy" and "do not resist an evil person?"
sip
Metalicafan said
"Again Jesus said "turn the other cheek", "love thy enemy" and "do not resist an evil person." And again this is irrelevant to my thread."
dk says
for a guy who likes woodpecker Lipping scripture what dis Christ saywould happen to hose who deny the holy ghost?
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: The kabah was that is past tense used by pagan Arabs as an idol the wee blacks stone and the box around it. cough.Yes, but not only that, it was considered a monument built by Abraham for God;s glory.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Mohamet when he conquered Mecca coopted it much the same way mohamadans coopt churches the conquer hagia Sophia a good e ample but he mohamet made it he center of his new faih of fusion. Elements of Talmudic judiasm elemetz of Christianity elements of old Arab paganism.Indeed, such is the manner in which all Abrahamic prophets take the old and create new ideas.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Mohamadans claim abrahmanth Abraham that but so what? They also lain cheist was not crucified do u belive them in that too?No, but that should not delineate form the fact Islam is a fine religion, like any other.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: MelalicsfN claims Christ was catholic I chAllange u on tht yet u say it's irrleavent. If uts irrelevant the. Why make the claim here?What did you challenge me on, exactly? I would gladly reply, I just dont know what you are seeking a reply to.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: And no in nonshape way or form was Christ a pacifistSo where was he violent, or use violence on another?
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: that's like claiming Christ was a fascist o any other modern political ideology.Not at all. Christ wasn't a fascist, but he was a pacifist. We know because of the evidence of his life.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: He was not a pacifist ge over it.Actually he was, that is why he advocated love, not ever war or violence.
(09-15-2010, 08:15 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Right next u will say gandi is Christ lolNot at all. Again with your crappy jokes. Gandhi was a smart man, but the messiah. If you really cant argument my point and actually show how it is wrong, then why comment? Is all you have crummy jokes? 'oh next you'll say your gay' haw haw haw. How sad you really are so ignorantly childish in a discussion. It shows your blatant failure.
Re: In Defence of Islam - MetallicaFan - 09-18-2010
(09-15-2010, 08:21 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: ContinuingWhen did he say that? Indeed he often indicated it was one's faith in God that lead them, not the entirety of their belief - like the prostitute, the Centurion etc.
sip
in response to admarito post which was this
"All other religions lead souls to hell,"
metelicfan said
"Why? I disagree."
dk says
because Christ says so.
(09-15-2010, 08:21 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: How do u go kntobthe father metalicafan?I do indeed know him.
(09-15-2010, 08:21 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: U love woodpecker lipping scripture go see what Christ saysI already have. You clearly know nothing. How sad. Your soul must be very blackened.
(09-15-2010, 08:21 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: this is funIndeed, you are epically failing.
Re: In Defence of Islam - MetallicaFan - 09-18-2010
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: According to Catholic theology, people go to hell for their freely committed and unrepented m : :))ortal sins.Where did Jesus say that? Also, living in a state of ignorance is no fault of someone who has been brought up that way.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Thank you for informing me of your sources. :)Sorry I forgot to post them in the OP. That book is worth reading.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Just war theory goes back to Aristotle and Cicero, and was developed by St. Augustine, who was around 200 years before the start of Islam.I meant specifically for the region - the Hijaz.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: I suppose I'll have to look into finding an online English translation of Sharia Law.But you shouldn't be. You must love people and develop the love they have, not seek out through anger and hate, another's flaws. Their flaws are easy to see, but not through anger, violence and hate will you show them that.
I am not interested in the good will or intentions of Muslims, but rather the truth or falsity of their religious doctrines.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Islamic morals contradict Catholic morals on certain - if not many - points, so I don't think God revealed contradictory moral codes.Well again its a matter of opinion. I beleive God works in mysterious ways. Not all Abrahamic tradition is consistent, but it does have light within it - as do all religions.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: I do not believe Jesus taught pacifism (cf. Luke 22:36; see also Rom.13:4 and Psalm 81:4).I beleive he did. See my previous points and quotes.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: This is a Catholic forum and you are a fellow Christian, so why should I need to prove the truth of the Christian faith to you?You dont, but you are wrong. Trying to prove falsities is hard, so I dont expect you to.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Why should I make an argument for something that you and I ought to hold as true from the outset?Indeed, hence why do you attack others and deride them for their beliefs when you think such action to you is wrong? You hypocrisy is revealed.
(09-15-2010, 08:38 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: ... Sorry, I just don't see where you're coming from. You're Christian but you're making a substantial effort to defend an objectively false religion (which DENIES central Christian doctrines), which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.No it makes perfect sense. My point is all religions have good in them and Islam is no different. As Christians we should recognize this fact. Also, in terms of mainstream Christian doctrine I dont see much conflict between the two in terms of moral and legal code.
Re: In Defence of Islam - cunctas_haereses - 09-18-2010
Quote:My point is all religions have good in them and Islam is no different. As Christians we should recognize this fact.
EPIC FAIL.
The Church has always taught that there is One Truth, and One Faith, and all other religions are of the DEVIL.
Period.
End of discussion.
If you do not believe this then you are not a Christian.
Re: In Defence of Islam - Credo - 09-18-2010
cunctas_haereses Wrote:EPIC FAIL.
The Church has always taught that there is One Truth, and One Faith, and all other religions are of the DEVIL.
Period.
End of discussion.
If you do not believe this then you are not a Christian.
Not end of discussion. There is not a religion on the face of the earth which does not have elements of the true religion contained therein. Satanism acknowledges a spiritual dimension to reality, and atheism – if we may broadly use the word ‘religion’ to mean a take on the spiritual – values reason. Both these points – a spiritual aspect to reality and the love of the intellect - are dearly held by Christians. From there on out the religions of the world come closer and closer to Catholicism. When concerning Islam there is so much we have in common. The issue here is not if, “the Church has always taught that there is one truth, and one faith, and all other religions are of the devil.” The point is that while not compromising the Gospel message we should acknowledge what is true in other systems of belief, value them, and - should we be in a position to do so – use these elements as bridge when inviting others to Catholicism.
Re: In Defence of Islam - In nomine Patris - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 10:08 AM)cunctas_haereses Wrote:Quote:My point is all religions have good in them and Islam is no different. As Christians we should recognize this fact.
EPIC FAIL.
The Church has always taught that there is One Truth, and One Faith, and all other religions are of the DEVIL.
Period.
End of discussion.
If you do not believe this then you are not a Christian.
Yes, exactally. Why is this so hard to believe? No need for discussion really.
Re: In Defence of Islam - Credo - 09-18-2010
In nomine Patris Wrote:Yes, exactally. Why is this so hard to believe?
Because cunctas_haereses' expression of the truth in question was stunted. There are subtleties he missed. Hopefully I expressed what those were in an understandable manner.
Re: In Defence of Islam - devotedknuckles - 09-18-2010
Metelcafan
u can fght the enemy and still love them. We r commandex ded to prAy for hen and to lovE them. Death is not the worst end hell is. Fighting the enemy of crist is a form of charity as vanquishing he enemy is condusive to the supreme law of saving souls
also besides vanquishing the enemy of Christ whih is our duty u Dan fight anyone and still love them. Having grown up with brothers I can assure u I loved them very much and they me yet we violently faught for fn and for principle. What r brothers for if not to grow up fighting them?
This doesn't mean we love was lacking it actually means we loved eachother very much
Lol as to what? Just war is no a u unique mohamadan concept it actually predTez mohamadanism and Christianity. It is rooted in roman duty not Arab nomadism. Hoky wAr can be traced back to the old testament long before mohamet.
Go do some research and by all means keep laughing. I have the vile korAn. I have spent some yeRs teaching mohamadans I am very fimilar with what mhamadans belive jehad to be and what the vile korN declares jehad to be. It is not just a just war. To mohamadans and mohamadanism a wR can only be just if it is a war for Allah and the spread of the vile mohamadan religion oe a war to protect mohamadans. U may argue
this has nothng to do with god but mohamadans will disagree with u. To them it has everything to do with god
The crusades were justified here is the evedence all five samples of pope Urbans speach at clairmont. Now u may argue u know more about what occured 1000 years ago then those who were actually there. But then again u can claim your a saskwatch it doesn't make it so
[adapted from Thatcher] Here is the one by the chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. Note how the traditions of the peace and truce of God - aimed at bringing about peace in Christendom - ties in directly with the call for a Crusade. Does this amount to the export of violence?