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Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - glgas - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 01:44 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: U asked if god loves mhamadan. I answered ths So  ask u does love mohamadanism?
Can u kindly answer

I dislike any ism. God wants us to be full as much as we can, not restricted. We shall be defined by our values, not by our differences from others.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - Baskerville - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 01:32 PM)Credo Wrote: 2) I fail to see what your entire post has to do with the topic of this thread.

It has to do with your usual pontificating. I was talking to someone and you had to butt in and say "there once was a man who said turn the other cheek"  I fail to see why you always have to act like  your better then everyone.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - SouthpawLink - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 12:50 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 12:42 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 12:30 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: God hates the Nikolaitans. Does he not?

In a sense, yes (he hated their heresy), but not absolutely. For the Nicolaitans existed, and for them to exist God must have willed their existence. And as existence is a good, God willed good toward them. But to 'will good to another' is to love them (as Aristotle and St. Thomas both said*). Therefore, God loved the Nicolaitans.


* Rhetoric, book II, chap. 4 (1380b or 1381a)
Summa Theologiae, I-II, Q. 26, a. 4, corp.; see also his Summa Contra Gentiles, I, 96.

I think it depends on how much you want to equivocate that term, hate.

I've often marveled at the way casuists make the moral laws of the Church disappear.  You know, at some point, you've got to take God at His word.  I'm not saying we can't disagree about this, I'm thinking that there's a reason why that passage is in there.   Indeed, the Nikolaitans were gnostic sodomites, and you know, of course, what God did to Sodom; not only an earthly destruction, which they deserved, but an eternal one as well.

The evangelist, I forget which one, said that the love of God is a fire which burns, purgates and glorifies.

Please note that I edited my post (I referenced Apoc. 2:6; see below*). What's more, I'm not entirely sure your argument is with me, per se, but rather with St. Thomas Aquinas (from whom I based my argument). And not only that, in defense of St. Thomas (SCG, I, 96), he proves that God hates nothing by citing Wisdom 11:25, which reads: "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made." He therefore used both positive and speculative theology to prove his argument, two methods that the Church has authoritatively embraced** (cf. Pope Pius XI, Apostolic Constitution Deus scientiarum Dominus, art. 29, a; 24 May 1931).

*"[T]hou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate" (Apoc. 2:6, DRV).
"[Y]ou hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate" (Rev. 2:6, NAB).
"[Y]ou hate the works of the Nicola'itans, which I also hate" (Rev. 2:6, RSV).

** http://www.trosch.org/the/ottintro.htm ("The method of dogmatic theology is both positive and speculative. ... The positive and speculative methods must not be separated from each other. The ideal lies in the harmonious coalescence of authority and reason. This is, indeed, expressly prescribed by Ecclesiastical Authority...")


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - Resurrexi - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 06:20 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 12:50 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 12:42 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 12:30 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: God hates the Nikolaitans. Does he not?

In a sense, yes (he hated their heresy), but not absolutely. For the Nicolaitans existed, and for them to exist God must have willed their existence. And as existence is a good, God willed good toward them. But to 'will good to another' is to love them (as Aristotle and St. Thomas both said*). Therefore, God loved the Nicolaitans.


* Rhetoric, book II, chap. 4 (1380b or 1381a)
Summa Theologiae, I-II, Q. 26, a. 4, corp.; see also his Summa Contra Gentiles, I, 96.

I think it depends on how much you want to equivocate that term, hate.

I've often marveled at the way casuists make the moral laws of the Church disappear.  You know, at some point, you've got to take God at His word.  I'm not saying we can't disagree about this, I'm thinking that there's a reason why that passage is in there.   Indeed, the Nikolaitans were gnostic sodomites, and you know, of course, what God did to Sodom; not only an earthly destruction, which they deserved, but an eternal one as well.

The evangelist, I forget which one, said that the love of God is a fire which burns, purgates and glorifies.

Please note that I edited my post (I referenced Apoc. 2:6; see below). What's more, I'm not entirely sure your argument is with me, per se, but rather with St. Thomas Aquinas (from whom I based my argument). And not only that, in defense of St. Thomas (SCG, I, 96), he proves that God hates nothing by citing Wisdom 11:25, which reads: "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made." He therefore used both positive and speculative theology to prove his argument, two methods that the Church has authoritatively embraced (cf. Pope Pius XI, Apostolic Constitution Deus scientiarum Dominus, art. 29, a; 24 May 1931).

"[T]hou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate" (Apoc. 2:6, DRV).
"[Y]ou hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate" (Rev. 2:6, NAB).
"[Y]ou hate the works of the Nicola'itans, which I also hate" (Rev. 2:6, RSV).

It's pretty clear that the relative clause refers to the deeds of the Nicolaites, and not to the persons themselves. I don't see why Augustine Baker seems to be arguing otherwise.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - devotedknuckles - 09-21-2010

Gigas I'm not asking what u think of isms I'm asking u if god loves false  religions
so
u brought up asking if god loves mohamsans which was answered so now I ask u followng tht does called love mohamadanism ie Islam
so
does god low Islam gigas?



Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - Resurrexi - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 06:52 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Gigas I'm not asking what u think of isms I'm asking u if god loves false  religions
so
u brought up asking if god loves mohamsans which was answered so now I ask u followng tht does called love mohamadanism ie Islam
so
does god low Islam gigas?

I don't think glgas has claimed that God loves Islam. I think it's pretty apparent from divine revelation that God hates falsehood.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - devotedknuckles - 09-21-2010

Bnever said gigas did. It's related to this rhetorical thread wheee he started it knowing full wel the answer
does god lve muslems?
Ok we answered that because he already knew the answer
so what is a muslem?
An adherent to Islam
whatvis Islam?

It's like asking does god live a child rapists the answer is yes. But it's an answer that does t really mean much to the raped kid does it? So ratherhen ask a question which gigas alreay k ew the answer to let's keep it real
ao gigas
does god love Islam?
I'll wait



Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - franklinf - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 05:53 PM)Baskerville Wrote:
(09-21-2010, 01:32 PM)Credo Wrote: 2) I fail to see what your entire post has to do with the topic of this thread.

It has to do with your usual pontificating. I was talking to someone and you had to butt in and say "there once was a man who said turn the other cheek"  I fail to see why you always have to act like  your better then everyone.

You must have missed where he said it is his duty enlighten and educate the forum.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - Augstine Baker - 09-21-2010

Whatever he is, Troll, Muslim, Sufi, he's not honest.  I hope that's the last thing I'll say either directly or indirectly to him.


Re: Do God loves a Muslim? - glgas - 09-21-2010

(09-21-2010, 07:36 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: whatvis Islam?

Subduing yourself to God.