FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Church (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Catholicism (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? (/showthread.php?tid=42231)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Martinus - 02-14-2011

(02-14-2011, 10:21 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: yeah for sure if the doctor says stop smoking cos you have asthma or lay off the krispy kreme cos your morbidly obese its a different story

Yeah, and even then I'd say making some reasonable effort to reduce, at least to start with, would be all you'd be morally bound to do.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a liberal when it comes to the morality of health, but it seems to make sense to me.

To be honest, and I know this isn't a strong argument in favour of my side of the moral debate, this is just my personal experience, there are plenty of things of far more certain immorality that I have to worry about.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Christus Imperat - 02-14-2011

Happily, it is warm enough outside for the first time in weeks that I can open the windows and have a smoke.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Bakuryokuso - 02-14-2011

well good points. I think thats why the church hasnt declared all smoking a sin... So many other things are so obviously blatantly sinful!!!


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Jitpring - 02-15-2011

(02-14-2011, 10:27 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: well definitely the govt will need to research to see which measures have proved most effective, or ineffective. Right now theyre focusing on reducing the amount of contraband cigs

By the way, the rank statism exhibited by the non-Americans in this thread is very interesting.

A government functionary shows up at your door and says, "I'm here to help." I suppose you believe him?


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Martinus - 02-15-2011

(02-15-2011, 12:01 AM)Jitpring Wrote:
(02-14-2011, 10:27 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: well definitely the govt will need to research to see which measures have proved most effective, or ineffective. Right now theyre focusing on reducing the amount of contraband cigs

By the way, the rank statism exhibited by the non-Americans in this thread is very interesting.

A government functionary shows up at your door and says, "I'm here to help." I suppose you believe him?

For my part (not sure if you meant me) no, I don't believe him.

I was just allowing for the position that 'we should take the Surgeon General seriously' and arguing that, even then, I don't think there's sufficient reason to believe that smoking is harmful to the extent that it would be a sin to do it.

I also don't trust these people, as it happens. That's another thing.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Christus Imperat - 02-15-2011

(02-15-2011, 12:01 AM)Jitpring Wrote:
(02-14-2011, 10:27 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: well definitely the govt will need to research to see which measures have proved most effective, or ineffective. Right now theyre focusing on reducing the amount of contraband cigs

By the way, the rank statism exhibited by the non-Americans in this thread is very interesting.

A government functionary shows up at your door and says, "I'm here to help." I suppose you believe him?

Right, the Governments of Canada and the US are generally good judges of moral matters!


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Bakuryokuso - 02-15-2011

you guys are comical with your silly exaggerations! :) government employees never show up at my door. Canadian banks didn't go hog-wild over subprime mortgages like the americans did, so it's not like the us system creates a utopia where the free market resolves all yer problems. Canadians are taxed more so boo hoo hoo we live like kings in the west, compared to most humans in most of human history. I have four basilicas and two TLM's in my town, university education's cheaper than nearly anywhere on the continent and I think the govt got it right and kicking the ass of evil tobacco companies who get rich by killing people.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Revixit - 02-15-2011

(02-13-2011, 02:48 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-13-2011, 02:41 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote:
(02-13-2011, 02:24 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-13-2011, 12:30 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote: Go outside and have a smoke, or stay inside and rage on my kids....you tell me which one sounds more sinful.

Are those really the only two choices open to you?
Pretty much yeah...or have a couple shots of whiskey...but I have ALOT of driving to so in a day, so smoking it is.

If you can go outside and smoke, you ought to be able to go outside and pray.



I know that being uncharitable and self-righteous are sins, because Jesus said so in the Gospels (two separate citations below.)  You were both uncharitable and self-righteous in your comment to CC, Jayne.  There was no reason for you to reply in such a rude manner.

CC had made it clear that she didn't want your advice about smoking with her last comment about substituting drinking for smoking and the reason that wouldn't work well for her.  Instead of taking her hint and letting the topic die, you chose to make a "helpful hint."  Your suggestion "If you can go outside and smoke, you ought to be able to go outside and pray" is an insinuation that she doesn't pray enough or perhaps doesn't pray properly.  

Last I heard, Benedict XVI was still Pope and the Catholic Church still doesn't ordain women so you are really not in a position to tell anyone to pray more or that smoking is a sin.  


For the record, I don't smoke, though I used to long ago.  Now, smoke bothers me a lot, but I'd rather be in a roomful of smokers who are congenial and don't think they are better than others than have to be with one self-righteous non-smoker.  Unfortunately, a lot of non-smokers are self-righteous and smokers are usually more congenial than non-smokers.  Now that I think of it, all of the congenial people I know are former smokers, as am I, or current smokers.  Perhaps younger people, as in Lisa's family, who chose not to smoke, are more congenial than older moralistic non-smokers.   The only older people I can think of who have never smoked are Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, all very moralistic, rigid groups.

Since we know that not all life-long smokers develop lung cancer, emphysema, etc., and that non-smokers do develop those diseases, I think that tobacco alone is not the problem but tobacco use by people who are genetically susceptible to those diseases.  

By the way, are you aware that women who have had breast cancer "cured" usually develop lung cancer a few years later?   If the lung cancer is "cured" for a few years, it usually comes back as brain cancer.  So breast cancer is a cause of lung cancer and/or brain cancer.



St. Matthew, Chap. 22, Jesus Answers About the Greatest Commandment

[34] But the Pharisees hearing that he had silenced the Sadducees, came together: [35] And one of them, a doctor of the law, asking him, tempting him:

[36] Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

St. Luke, Chap. 18, Jesus Speaks the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican

[9] And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: [10] Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

[11] The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. [12] I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.




Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - St. Drogo - 02-15-2011

(02-15-2011, 02:06 AM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: you guys are comical with your silly exaggerations! :) government employees never show up at my door. Canadian banks didn't go hog-wild over subprime mortgages like the americans did, so it's not like the us system creates a utopia where the free market resolves all yer problems. Canadians are taxed more so boo hoo hoo we live like kings in the west, compared to most humans in most of human history. I have four basilicas and two TLM's in my town, university education's cheaper than nearly anywhere on the continent and I think the govt got it right and kicking the ass of evil tobacco companies who get rich by killing people.

I'd prefer that to be the case here. On the contrary, the US Government actually favors massive evil tobacco companies like Philip Morris over small independent quality tobacco growers. Last year's 2200% tax hike that specifically targeted rolling tobaccos has driven many many small and family-owned producers out of business.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Nic - 02-15-2011

(02-14-2011, 09:47 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-14-2011, 09:25 PM)Martinus Wrote: I obviously don't have a problem with you holding the view personally, as a matter of conscience, that you shouldn't smoke. I don't think you have any right, though, to try to make that binding on everyone else. Until the Church does, it simply isn't.

I am not trying to make anything binding on anybody.  I am trying to understand what the Church teaches.  To the best of my understanding, this teaching is that smoking enough to harm oneself, without a proportionate reason, is sinful.

Popess JayneK has made an official declaration!

Again, show me ONE official Church documentation, without any ambiguity, that states outright that smoking is sinful - and not from the Modernist Catechism you use.