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Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Printable Version

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Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - JayneK - 02-12-2011

(02-12-2011, 09:01 PM)Ruination_ipa Wrote: That's not true. The studies showing the risks of smoking pertain not to people who smoke only after meals, the occasional cigar smoker, or the one bowl every other day pipe smoker - they pertain to those who have an immoderate smoking habit. You have to compare apples to apples. Smoking immoderately has health risks - as does immoderate drinking. There was a recent study that showed pipe smokers live, on average, eight years longer than the average person.

As I understand it, a person can drink every day without significant health risk, but smoking every day does have significant risks. 

(02-12-2011, 09:01 PM)Ruination_ipa Wrote: The evidence has already been presented to you here. If smoking were sinful the Church would've condemned it long ago. The Church cannot remain silent if millions of people are falling into hell because of smoking.

The Church did give us the general principle long ago.  Indulging in anything to a point that is harmful is a sin.  Determining what degree of smoking is harmful is a medical question not a moral/religious question.  Our medical knowledge is always changing as new information comes to light.  The current consensus of medical authorities is that smoking is harmful.

(02-12-2011, 09:01 PM)Ruination_ipa Wrote: Now two questions for you:

1. Is tobacco inherently evil?
2. Is smoking inherently evil?

I do not see how either of these could be inherently evil. 

(02-12-2011, 09:01 PM)Ruination_ipa Wrote: Also, you stated: "According to medical authorities, the health risks of moderate drinking are not equivalent to the health risks of moderate smoking" - so you admit that there are health risks involved in moderate drinking - just that they're not supposedly equivalent. So what justifies the moderate usage of alcohol in your opinion if there are health risks involved?

Actually I am not aware of any health risks of moderate drinking, but I would need to do more research to be sure.  I can't drink personally so I have not looked into this question very much.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Habitual_Ritual - 02-12-2011

(02-12-2011, 07:30 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-12-2011, 05:41 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: I guess GK Chesterton must in the deepest circle  of Hell:

Chesterton wrote before it was known just how harmful smoking is.

Nope:

"In 1929, Fritz Lickint of Dresden, Germany, published a formal statistical evidence of a lung cancer–tobacco link, based on a study showing that lung cancer sufferers were likely to be smokers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco#History


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Bakuryokuso - 02-12-2011

smoking around non-smokers is certainly a sin against charity. Thank God that it's been banned in restaurants in my province a few years ago. Second hand smoke is disgusting. Personally I think that smoking should be banned in all public places. I believe I had a right not to breathe in those noxious fumes.

It's also a sin against charity because of the burden it puts on our healthcare systems, especially public ones.

I think the tobacco industry is a sinful structure, set up to make money from killing people.

Individual guilt is commuted thru invincible ignorance though. It's pretty sad to hear folks addicted to the stuff defending it. If human life persists another few hundred years I believe smoking will be seen as a terrible anachronism of our times.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - JayneK - 02-12-2011

(02-12-2011, 10:02 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-12-2011, 07:30 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-12-2011, 05:41 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: I guess GK Chesterton must in the deepest circle  of Hell:

Chesterton wrote before it was known just how harmful smoking is.

Nope:

"In 1929, Fritz Lickint of Dresden, Germany, published a formal statistical evidence of a lung cancer–tobacco link, based on a study showing that lung cancer sufferers were likely to be smokers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco#History

Chesterton died in 1936.  Even if his pro-smoking quote were written in the last years of his life, after this study was published, there is no reason to assume he was aware of it.  Even if he had heard of it, it was just the one study.  He did not have the sort of conclusive evidence that we have now.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - MichaelNZ - 02-12-2011

Quote:Personally I think that smoking should be banned in all public places. I believe I had a right not to breathe in those noxious fumes.

Come to New Zealand then. Smoking is banned in all public places here, including bars and pubs.

I personally think that smoking is bad and it should be given up. However, I don't have the authority to say that it's a sin because I'm not a priest.

I definitely disagree with Jayne about fast food being a sin. If you ate only McDonald's or only KFC that would be a sin, but there is nothing sinful about having a Big Mac for dinner. I have never heard anywhere that the Church teaches that only healthy food may be eaten.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - devotedknuckles - 02-12-2011

Hoping for the banning of s pming in public spaces and lauding the banning of smoking indoor privately owned places is authoritarian and totalitaran. Lauding government encroachment on what ubdo with you private property is bullshit.
It should be left to the owners. If u don't want to breath second hand smoke then u csn go sompleace else a non smoking one
to force all to your way is asshole move
I don't s ole bt I used to. I'd rather breath a room full of second hand smoke then have the gov gain more control and power
it should be left up to the owners.



Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Bakuryokuso - 02-12-2011

michael, i dreamt about moving to NZ when I was in high school. Wont do it now though! :)

Like the fast food industry, I think the tobacco industry is an unfortunate sinful structure. I dont see smoking in heaven, or fast food for that matter. But as has been stated, the church seems to tolerate their use in moderation.

I just cant imagine why someone would want to start smoking since the risk of addiction is so high


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - Bakuryokuso - 02-12-2011

no smoking sections in restaurant were no like no peeing areas in swimming pools. Smokers are the minority now so screw em I say I hate breathing that shit when I'm in a park playing with my son, same principle - dog owners have to pick up dog turds so we don't step in it. And smokers love to break the rules and smoke where theyre not supposed to. Want to see an asshole? Tell a smoker to not smoke in a no smoking zone. They bite your head off. Addicted pricks.


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - quotidianum - 02-12-2011

You know, I've actually thought of this quite often, and have come to varying conclusions.  The fact that there is no authoritative declaration against smoking per se leaves me believing that it is not expressly sinful, but this is a legalistic conclusion that is not generally becoming of a Catholic, and so I'm not set to it.   (For the record, I have never smoked "regularly" and have never smoked cigarettes, but I smoke a cigar every once in a while and have smoked hooka in the past, which I understand are "more dangerous" than cigarettes because neither have filters.)  I think that if smoking becomes an addiction, then it is a sin of gluttony like any other addiction.  As I understand sins of gluttony and over-indulgence, it is sinful to surrender reason and self-control to urges.

That said, another HUGE issue, I think, in this controversy here is the question of smoking while pregnant.  We know that smoking causes harm to fetuses in a much more exaggerated fashion than it does to adults, and that it can even kill them.  It seems to me that if the mother knows this, as mothers these days in most of the world know, and she smokes nonetheless, that this is sinful.  Obviously, you, Jayne, think that this is sinful too because you have already stated that you think all smoking in sinful, but to the others who do not agree with you, I ask, is smoking while pregnant a-okay?

Obviously, there are cases where people didn't know about the dangers of smoking (and drinking, and using other drugs) and the babies were harmed.  I do not think that these people sinned, because they honestly didn't know.  However, if they did know, and they chose to engage in these things anyway, then that is sinful, I think, even if they didn't harm the baby, because to place a baby in danger in this way simply because of your own selfish urges is unacceptable.

[However, even if we all agree that smoking while pregnant is sinful (and we probably won't, as this issue is), morally, this does not resolve the issue of the sinfulness of smoking itself, because with pregnancy, a woman is inherently affecting the body of another person, thus the argument has to do with causing injury, or recklessly allowing the exposure to injury, of another helpless person instead of the original dispute over smoking, which is its affect on the smoker's body.]


Re: Why claim that smoking is not a sin? - quotidianum - 02-12-2011

(02-12-2011, 11:08 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: no smoking sections in restaurant were no like no peeing areas in swimming pools. Smokers are the minority now so screw em I say I hate breathing that shit when I'm in a park playing with my son, same principle - dog owners have to pick up dog turds so we don't step in it. And smokers love to break the rules and smoke where theyre not supposed to. Want to see an asshole? Tell a smoker to not smoke in a no smoking zone. They bite your head off. Addicted pricks.

Indeed, I have long thought  that using a stream of vast generalizations and irrelevant personal opinions, while punctuating one's thoughts with several unnecessary cuss words, helps a person get his point across much more clearly.