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There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Printable Version

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Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Habitual_Ritual - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:28 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:24 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:14 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:08 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 10:02 PM)Melkite Wrote: Why can't someone 'be' a homosexual and also a Christian?  Afterall, a sin isn't something you 'are,' it's something you do.
,

You've answered your won question. Homosexuality is an act of the will,a sin, a thing and not a state existential ontology....

Going back to basics, let's look up what the word homosexual means:

http://m-w.com
of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

That's all it means.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It doesn't mean someone acts on it or is their sine-qua-non.  It means they have sexual desires towards members of the same sex.

And this relates to "homosexual persons" and why I think it was used, but we aren't that far in the discussion yet.  At least I'm not.  I'm trying to get Johnny Catholic to stop using Protestant sources.
over an
I would have described "directing sexual desire toward another" as an act in the true meaning of the word just as Christ tells us that merely fantasizing over another woman is indeed Adultery...

Sure, but it talks about a tendency to direct.  It is a pre-disposition to a certain kind of sin.  In the theological sense, a homosexual person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring members of the same sex.  A lustful person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring unlawful sex.

If a homosexual thought or a hot smoookin' lassie pops up in our minds it is a sin if we derive pleasure from it, not if we push it away.

Sure,but there is a tendency out there when using the term homosexual , to describe such folk in an anthropological sense, (hence the homo prefix), rather than as someone who suffers from predispositions of one sort or another.The purpose being to legitimize the sin to some extent in the sphere of naturalism


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - voxxpopulisuxx - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:24 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:21 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: The Catholic University of Louvain in Belgium (Part I)
by Alice von Hildebrand

What's your point?  And do you have a better definition of "homosexual" than two respected dictionaries give?
It was to show that the arguments PRO- Hsexual that were being espoused at the now defunct seminary were deemed NON Catholic arguments by Alice Von Hildebrand (no protty she) and these arguments seem reasonable on their face...and a few of the arguments bare a certain similarity to your arguments. But the articl was in the pipeline before you asked for the definition...so its slighty non sequiter


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Habitual_Ritual - 02-21-2011

(02-18-2011, 11:27 AM)Melkite Wrote: Congratulations on condemning yourself to hell by your own act of false piety!

:laughing:

Drama Queen much?


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - voxxpopulisuxx - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:28 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:24 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:14 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:08 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 10:02 PM)Melkite Wrote: Why can't someone 'be' a homosexual and also a Christian?  Afterall, a sin isn't something you 'are,' it's something you do.
,

You've answered your won question. Homosexuality is an act of the will,a sin, a thing and not a state existential ontology....

Going back to basics, let's look up what the word homosexual means:

http://m-w.com
of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

That's all it means.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It doesn't mean someone acts on it or is their sine-qua-non.  It means they have sexual desires towards members of the same sex.

And this relates to "homosexual persons" and why I think it was used, but we aren't that far in the discussion yet.  At least I'm not.  I'm trying to get Johnny Catholic to stop using Protestant sources.
over an
I would have described "directing sexual desire toward another" as an act in the true meaning of the word just as Christ tells us that merely fantasizing over another woman is indeed Adultery...

Sure, but it talks about a tendency to direct.  It is a pre-disposition to a certain kind of sin.  In the theological sense, a homosexual person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring members of the same sex.  A lustful person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring unlawful sex.

If a homosexual thought or a hot smoookin' lassie pops up in our minds it is a sin if we derive pleasure from it, not if we push it away.
See here is where we part far and wide, it is a novelty to equate these sins as equal sins. Fornication is not as sinful as two men (or womyn) stimulating each other to completion.
David lusted after bathsheeba, The Sodomites lusted after the male angels even being offered by Lot his own daughters...Lot felt that sex with his own daughters was of less evil then with the male messengers of God


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Habitual_Ritual - 02-21-2011

(02-18-2011, 10:05 PM)Catholic Johnny Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 10:02 PM)Melkite Wrote: Why can't someone 'be' a homosexual and also a Christian?  Afterall, a sin isn't something you 'are,' it's something you do.

Did you read the OP?  It isn't my opinion, its the clear teaching of the New Testament.

Its a bit like saying you can't be a horse and Christian (which is true) but that's only if you buy into the modern naturalistic anthropological definition of Homosexuality rather than accepting it is a highly disordered tendency to certain forms of sin which can of course be conquered.


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - voxxpopulisuxx - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:46 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 11:27 AM)Melkite Wrote: Congratulations on condemning yourself to hell by your own act of false piety!

:laughing:

Drama Queen much?
From the Douay Catholic Catechism of 1649
CHAPTER  XX -  The sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance
Q. 925. HOW many such sins are there?
A. Four.
Q. 926. What is the first of them?
A. Wilful murder, which is a voluntary and unjust taking away another’s life.
Q. 927. How show you the depravity of this sin?
A. Out of Gen. iv. 10. Where it is said to Cain “What hast thou done? the voice of the blood of thy brother crieth to me from the earth: now, therefore shalt thou be cursed upon the earth.” And Matt. xxvi 52, “All that take the sword, shall perish with the sword.”
Q. 928. What is the second?
A. The sin of Sodom, or carnal sin against nature, which is a voluntary shedding of the seed of nature, out of the due use of marriage, or lust with a different sex.
Q. 929. What is the scripture proof of this?
A. Out of Gen. xix. 13. where we read of the Sodomites, and their sin. “We will destroy this place because the cry of them hath increased before our Lord, who hath sent us to destroy them,” (and they were burnt with fire from heaven.)
Q. 930. What is the third?
A. Oppressing of the poor, which is a cruel, tyrannical, and unjust dealing with inferiors.
Q. 931. What other proof have you of that?
A. Out of Exod. xxii. 21. “Ye shall not hurt the widow and the fatherless: If you do hurt them, they will cry unto me, and I will hear them cry, and my fury shall take indignation, and I will strike thee with the sword.” And out of Isa. x. 1, 2. “Wo to them that make unjust laws, that they might oppress the poor in judgment, and do violence to the cause of the humble of my people.”
Q. 932. What is the fourth?
A. To defraud working men of their wages, which is to lessen, or detain it from them.
Q. 933. What proof have you of it?
A. Out of Eccl. xxxiv. 37. “He that sheddeth blood and he that defraudeth the hired man, are brethren,” and out of James v. 4. “Behold the hire of the workmen that have reaped your fields, which is defrauded by you, crieth, and their cry hath entered into the ears of the Lord God of Sabbath.”


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Historian - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:34 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:21 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:15 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: this your opinion and a cherry picked definition with all due respect.

I don't think so, but I'll be happy to defend myself if you are willing to back up your claim.

Give me another definition from any reputable dictionary.  That was from Merriam-Webster for the word "homosexual".

Here it is from the Oxford dictionary:

Quote:adjective
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex:
homosexual desire

noun
a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.
since the term is recent novelty circa 1892 according to your own source.... it can not hold the test of the traditional definition which is what is in this debate I think.

If the word didn't exist until 1892, how could it have a traditional definition?

Quote: It also presumes the existence of a naturally born homo-sexual....a complete novelty and an affront to the creator IMO

The definition does no such thing.  It makes no claim where this attraction is rooted.

Quote:Further the second definition from websters defines homosexuality as an act.

Really?  Websters must be really messed up if they put the definition of a noun (an act) in with the definition of an adjective.  Or could it be you aren't reading it properly?

Quote:Further still if one defines the word SEX at websters we find : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females

Therefore HOMO or singular gender genital  stimulation (really shared masturbation) cannot be defined as sex or sexual at all by any definition, there for the term HS is a misnomer, more like orwellian newspeak

Talk about cherry picking a definition.   ::)    You're also reading the definition wrong.  Sexual as opposed to asexual.  Only organisms that reproduce sexually have a sex (duh).  That's why it qualifies it with reproduction.  One still has a sex if they are chaste, don't they? Or if they are non-sexual, or asexual, etc.

There's a thinker for ya, voxp.  If someone is asexual, they don't have an interest in sex, and don't reproduce, so obviously the word is orwellian newspeak, right?

[/quote]


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Habitual_Ritual - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:54 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:46 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 11:27 AM)Melkite Wrote: Congratulations on condemning yourself to hell by your own act of false piety!

:laughing:

Drama Queen much?
From the Douay Catholic Catechism of 1649
CHAPTER  XX -  The sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance
Q. 925. HOW many such sins are there?
A. Four.
Q. 926. What is the first of them?
A. Wilful murder, which is a voluntary and unjust taking away another’s life.
Q. 927. How show you the depravity of this sin?
A. Out of Gen. iv. 10. Where it is said to Cain “What hast thou done? the voice of the blood of thy brother crieth to me from the earth: now, therefore shalt thou be cursed upon the earth.” And Matt. xxvi 52, “All that take the sword, shall perish with the sword.”
Q. 928. What is the second?
A. The sin of Sodom, or carnal sin against nature, which is a voluntary shedding of the seed of nature, out of the due use of marriage, or lust with a different sex.
Q. 929. What is the scripture proof of this?
A. Out of Gen. xix. 13. where we read of the Sodomites, and their sin. “We will destroy this place because the cry of them hath increased before our Lord, who hath sent us to destroy them,” (and they were burnt with fire from heaven.)
Q. 930. What is the third?
A. Oppressing of the poor, which is a cruel, tyrannical, and unjust dealing with inferiors.
Q. 931. What other proof have you of that?
A. Out of Exod. xxii. 21. “Ye shall not hurt the widow and the fatherless: If you do hurt them, they will cry unto me, and I will hear them cry, and my fury shall take indignation, and I will strike thee with the sword.” And out of Isa. x. 1, 2. “Wo to them that make unjust laws, that they might oppress the poor in judgment, and do violence to the cause of the humble of my people.”
Q. 932. What is the fourth?
A. To defraud working men of their wages, which is to lessen, or detain it from them.
Q. 933. What proof have you of it?
A. Out of Eccl. xxxiv. 37. “He that sheddeth blood and he that defraudeth the hired man, are brethren,” and out of James v. 4. “Behold the hire of the workmen that have reaped your fields, which is defrauded by you, crieth, and their cry hath entered into the ears of the Lord God of Sabbath.”

Thanks,your making my point. Homoism is a highly disordered sin and as such can be conquered through prayer,fasting and the salvivic nature of Our Lords Passion and death....as is the case with sin in general,some of course being worse than others.Homoism is  not a fixed anthropological state of being as society would have us believe


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Historian - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 05:47 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:28 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:24 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:14 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 05:08 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-18-2011, 10:02 PM)Melkite Wrote: Why can't someone 'be' a homosexual and also a Christian?  Afterall, a sin isn't something you 'are,' it's something you do.
,

You've answered your won question. Homosexuality is an act of the will,a sin, a thing and not a state existential ontology....

Going back to basics, let's look up what the word homosexual means:

http://m-w.com
of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

That's all it means.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It doesn't mean someone acts on it or is their sine-qua-non.  It means they have sexual desires towards members of the same sex.

And this relates to "homosexual persons" and why I think it was used, but we aren't that far in the discussion yet.  At least I'm not.  I'm trying to get Johnny Catholic to stop using Protestant sources.
over an
I would have described "directing sexual desire toward another" as an act in the true meaning of the word just as Christ tells us that merely fantasizing over another woman is indeed Adultery...

Sure, but it talks about a tendency to direct.  It is a pre-disposition to a certain kind of sin.  In the theological sense, a homosexual person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring members of the same sex.  A lustful person is a person whose pre-disposition to sin is that of desiring unlawful sex.

If a homosexual thought or a hot smoookin' lassie pops up in our minds it is a sin if we derive pleasure from it, not if we push it away.
See here is where we part far and wide, it is a novelty to equate these sins as equal sins. Fornication is not as sinful as two men (or womyn) stimulating each other to completion.
David lusted after bathsheeba, The Sodomites lusted after the male angels even being offered by Lot his own daughters...Lot felt that sex with his own daughters was of less evil then with the male messengers of God

Where did I say these sins were equal?  I didn't, I was giving an example that showed the description was of a predisposition of sin.  I never said they were equal.  In fact, I can cite the Summa where St. Thomas argues they are not equal in detail.

Really, do you think I'm as much of a dumb-ass heretic as you are treating me?



Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Historian - 02-21-2011

(02-21-2011, 06:03 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: Thanks,your making my point. Homoism is a highly disordered sin and as such can be conquered through prayer,fasting and the salvivic nature of Our Lords Passion and death....as is the case with sin in general,some of course being worse than others.Homoism is  not a fixed anthropological state of being as society would have us believe

Is that a new word?  Homoism?

I don't think anyone on this thread has said homosexual acts are not gravely sinful.  That's not the question.  The question at hand is if one can be a Christian and a "homosexual" by the dictionary definition of the term.  CJ claims they cannot.