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There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Printable Version

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Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - voxxpopulisuxx - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 08:46 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: This is more reform of the reform typical of post vat2 confusion. A mixture of clear and traditional and modernist and pliable. A little leavening leavens the whole loaf.  The then Cardinal Ratzinger rightly points out the state of things while missing the cause of the state of things. As you pointed out (to my very great appreciation) the source of the term homosexual has no source in the faith. Created to explain as natural that which the Church always properly defined as a horrible sin. Its like bemoaning the fact that there are so many hornets flying around while you hold the nest in your hand. If the modern cccs compilers want to defeat the sin then stop using terminology that masks its true discription. Alice or Deitrich Von Hildebrande had the same opinion of the term (although for the life of me I cant locate the quote on the web, but Im sure I read it in a Remnant article)
The term homosexual should be expunged and replaced with a clearer term or go back to sodomitic.
QUEstion:
Is there a Latin word for this?
I reiterate my question


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Catholic Johnny - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 09:44 AM)James02 Wrote:
Quote:  I showed how anyone persisting in mortal sin cannot properly be considered a Christian at all because of their rejection of grace.
  Are they apostate or excommunicated?  Here is your contradiction.  It must be your position that a simple confession will not suffice to bring these people back into the Church.  Is that your position?

You leave out another category.  Which is that despite their being baptized, they never added faith at any time in their formation process to the Sacrament as they became gradually more culpable for it's moral requirements until the age of spiritual adulthood (Confirmation age).  Then, despite recieving the sacrament of confirmation, they did not add to it any virtue of faith from their own part, as it is written, "he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned."  Mark 16:16

Obviously they are not excommunicated.  The Concilliar Church and the Novus Ordo Bishops excommunicate ONLY those predisposed to the preservation of Tradtion (SSPX).  And one may not technically apostasize from something they never accepted.  Yes, I understand that the presupposition is that faithful parents passed their faith onto their baptized children (and this is a huge presumption today) and that their baptized children proceeded in a state of baptismal innocence until the age of accountability.  However, more often than not, the case is that the children were not properly catechized (more likely scandalized by the New Religion) and therefore never had the Catholic Faith to apostasize from at all. 

Proper utilization of the most holy sacrament of penance and absolution can both regenerate an obstinate sinner and restore a fallen Catholic.  However, this presumes upon an intact orthodox sacramental economy uncorrupted by the scourge of Modernism.  And therein lay the weakness of your (and that of most others who have rebutted me) argument.  You simply undersell the gravity of Modernism and its diabolical impetus and fruits.  I refuse to soft peddle it.  It is as Pope St. Pius X called it, the "synthesis of all heresies" which "destroys all religion." (Pascendi).

If you are content to place that as a category of one among many, do as thou wilt.  As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - James02 - 02-25-2011

You put a Vat. II modernist to shame with your ambiguity, and your refusal to answer a SIMPLE question.  Next you will be setting up a hegelian dialectic.

I don't leave out any category, I refused to debate a tautology: "Someone who is not Catholic is not Catholic".  What your write can be taken as the heresy of puritanism, though you were ambiguous enough to provide an escape hatch.  At issue is a Catholic who commits sodomy, or fornicates, or whatever, and then repents and goes to confession.  In that case, are you saying a simple confession would not bring him into good standing with God and restore sanctifying grace?

If you say a simple confession would suffice, then he was a Catholic before the confession, i.e. this proves a Catholic can fornicate or commit sodomy.  It rebuts the puritanist heresy.

If you say it would not suffice, then you professing heresy.   And you oppose the plain language of Pope Pius XII, which I won't quote again. 


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - St. Drogo - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 08:46 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: This is more reform of the reform typical of post vat2 confusion. A mixture of clear and traditional and modernist and pliable. A little leavening leavens the whole loaf.  The then Cardinal Ratzinger rightly points out the state of things while missing the cause of the state of things. As you pointed out (to my very great appreciation) the source of the term homosexual has no source in the faith. Created to explain as natural that which the Church always properly defined as a horrible sin. Its like bemoaning the fact that there are so many hornets flying around while you hold the nest in your hand. If the modern cccs compilers want to defeat the sin then stop using terminology that masks its true discription. Alice or Deitrich Von Hildebrande had the same opinion of the term (although for the life of me I cant locate the quote on the web, but Im sure I read it in a Remnant article)
The term homosexual should be expunged and replaced with a clearer term or go back to sodomitic.
QUEstion:
Is there a Latin word for this?
I don't thing that Cardinal Ratzinger failed to assess the cause of things. He is very careful to delineate the questionable motives behind the expression's applications. I am certainly dense because I don't sense any "reform of the reform" confusion--at least not in any of its typical manifestations. For goodness sake, Cardinal Ratzinger boldly says that it should come as no surprise when people commit violence against sodomites! No, there is no traditional Latin term for this precisely, and the closest I can come up with is appetitum turbidum. I'm gathering that Catholic Johnny thinks that molles is applicable. It's a dangerous word and one that is easily lends itself to misinterpretation which is all the more reason why it was appropriate for the Church to respond to it. I think, at least in these two documents, the Church has. Sodomitic is not a good term either since those who do not engage in sodomy are not sodomites.

Edit: He's going even further than that apparently James02. According to what I've followed, no person who experiences homosexual temptations and chastely moderates them and persists in "self-identifying" himself with the accurate psychological pathology that applies to him (i.e. homosexual) is a Christian.


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Catholic Johnny - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 12:15 PM)James02 Wrote: You put a Vat. II modernist to shame with your ambiguity, and your refusal to answer a SIMPLE question.  Next you will be setting up a hegelian dialectic.

I don't leave out any category, I refused to debate a tautology: "Someone who is not Catholic is not Catholic".  What your write can be taken as the heresy of puritanism, though you were ambiguous enough to provide an escape hatch.  At issue is a Catholic who commits sodomy, or fornicates, or whatever, and then repents and goes to confession.  In that case, are you saying a simple confession would not bring him into good standing with God and restore sanctifying grace?

If you say a simple confession would suffice, then he was a Catholic before the confession, i.e. this proves a Catholic can fornicate or commit sodomy.  It rebuts the puritanist heresy.

If you say it would not suffice, then you are an heretic.  And you oppose the plain language of Pope Pius XII, which I won't quote again. 

You maliciously distort my words.  My remarks are clear:  "Proper utilization of the most holy sacrament of penance and absolution can both regenerate an obstinate sinner and restore a fallen Catholic."

The issue here is the Cross of Christ.  Either Christ died to destroy the works of the devil in the lives of believers in the Gospel, or the cross of Christ is of none effect among those who equivocate on the issue of sodomitic acts, intents, and desires.  Christ either crucifies the fallen nature or he enables it in the economy of grace.  You shamelessly undersell the power of the blood of Jesus (perhaps as you have been taught) but I as one thoroughly converted from a pagan life know the power of God to make all things new reject your limitation of Christ's unfathomable power to redeem sinners and renew minds.


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - St. Drogo - 02-25-2011

So you are saying that the grace conferred in the Church's sacraments will restore a fallen nature? I remember reading a quotation of St. Jerome in the Summa I think, "Though God works many miracles, he cannot restore a virgin once fallen"


Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Historian - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 08:46 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: Is there a Latin word for this?

Homosexualitas

In fact, "On the pastoral care of homosexual persons" has as its official title:

Homosexualitatis problema

I suppose that won't help you.




Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - James02 - 02-25-2011

Quote: You maliciously distort my words.  My remarks are clear:  "Proper utilization of the most holy sacrament of penance and absolution can both regenerate an obstinate sinner and restore a fallen Catholic."

The sticks and twigs defense, with some ad hominem thrown in.  Your non-answer is called "begging the question".  We are trying to establish who is a Catholic.  Actually, the Pope has decided the matter.  What we are trying to establish is if you are professing heresy.

We are discussing if someone who commits sodomy or fornicates is Catholic.  

So I'll repeat my question, a Catholic fornicates or commits sodomy.  He repents and goes to confession.  Will a simple confession restore sanctifying grace to him?  If yes, then he was a Catholic before confession.

Simple question.



Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Catholic Johnny - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 12:52 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-25-2011, 08:46 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: Is there a Latin word for this?
Homosexualitas

In fact, "On the pastoral care of homosexual persons" has as its official title:

Homosexualitatis problema

I suppose that won't help you.

I was paraphrasing.  All these references can become quite tedious.  Thanks for the correction.




Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - Historian - 02-25-2011

(02-25-2011, 12:55 PM)Catholic Johnny Wrote:
(02-25-2011, 12:52 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(02-25-2011, 08:46 AM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: Is there a Latin word for this?
Homosexualitas

In fact, "On the pastoral care of homosexual persons" has as its official title:

Homosexualitatis problema

I suppose that won't help you.

I was paraphrasing.  All these references can become quite tedious.  Thanks for the correction.

Eh, I wasn't commenting on stuff you said, just answering VoxP.  The official title isn't used much; it's always referred to as "on the pastoral..." etc.