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Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Printable Version

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Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Beatissima Mariae - 04-15-2011

Shea uses some really derogatory language, "voris fanboys", "voris groupies", etc.

I hope Voris does not dignify this by responding to this childish rubbish.

But Sheas whole premise is just absurd. Voris is not commanding Catholics to do anything. Only strongly suggesting people seek out more Orhtodox parishes if your current parish starts espousing earth day clap trap on Easter. Doesn't take a Bishop to mete out this kind of invaluable advice.

Shea... Tsk tsk tsk

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Historian - 04-15-2011

Made the link clickable.  You need http:// in front for the forum to make it clickable.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Beatissima Mariae - 04-15-2011

Thanks man, lying in bed with Blackberry, lol. Quite a bit more challenging this way.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Historian - 04-15-2011

The Neo-Catholics will attack anything with a whiff of traditionalism because it goes against their view of how the Church should be.  Say anything bad about the Novus Ordo, the apostates and heretics in the Episcopacy, etc., and you're a target.

Shea's been writing telling people how to be Catholic for years and he suddenly thinks laymen telling people how to be Catholic is wrong? ???

Um, OK.

Actually, I agree to a point.  A cult of personality is dangerous.  But it's more dangerous for clergy than laity; JP2 is a good example of that where the personality overshadows the objective theology that he actually has the authority for.  Fr. Euteneur is another example of what can happen.  If Dr. Hahn messes up, people will be disappointed, but the scandal will be a lot less.

I've been against lay apologetics as the Neo-Catholics practice it for a long time.  But, you know, Shea is missing one small fact:  Voris is an actual theologian.  He has an STB.  It may be a minor degree, he may not wield the Magisterium or hold a See, etc., but he's a theologian with bonafides.  If any layman is going to flap his gums from a soapbox, a theologian isn't the worst choice.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - tradne4163 - 04-15-2011

I saw the video Shea was talking about. It's great stuff.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Augstine Baker - 04-15-2011

Mark "Saa" Shay has been a fixture of the establishment for eons.  He was defending ++Schoenborn last year when the latter was arguing that it was important that homos are in monogamous relationships, and he was recently attacking Fr. Corapi and defending his girlfriend, another establishment waste product, The Cankoress.

These establishment creatures are fast losing their credibility, they should join the Old Liberal Hierarchy in forming a schismatic AmChurch, where they can be as pointlessly Neo-Con as they want to be.

I don't think Voris should respond to "Sa" Shea... he's a stunted piece of offal and a puerile make-piece hack with all of the spiritual depth you ever want to find in the puritanical world of Congregationalism.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Historian - 04-15-2011

(04-15-2011, 01:10 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: he was recently attacking Fr. Corapi and defending his girlfriend, another establishment waste product, The Cankoress.

Shea is married and a girlfriend implies romance.  Please don't engage in calumny and rumor-mongering.  You can make your point without doing that.  Thanks.

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Gerard - 04-15-2011

Voris is representative of a breakthrough in the post-Vatican II era.  Fr. Malachi Martin was talking in the last few years about "the phalanx" of the "superforce" and how to communicate with people that no longer can read but only appreciate "the image."  He said we hadn't yet begun to deal with this problem.  A first sign of hope was "The Passion of the Christ" in which "the image" was used magnificently to teach the faith by Mel Gibson.  Much like an ancient Church had the images to demonstrate the faith to the illiterate. 

But Voris is a  Church layman who is truly militant and by orders of magnitude more traditional than any of the neo-Catholic apologists. And he is appealing to a wide and growing audience.  (John Salza is also militant but they seem to not want to pick a fight with him as long as he is limited in his scope and doesn't bring up the issues of the crisis when dealing with them. Maybe they think he's containable. ) 

As an ulterior motive in this attack, I'm wondering if they are seeing a difference in web traffic, book sales etc. as people who are getting the message are moving their limited time and resources towards more traditional books, audio and video apologetics.  Voris being very prominent in the time, message and above all, the refusal to be docile in front of heresy while the Neo-Catholics have a "cult of office" instead of a realistic view of the offices of the Church and the faith. 

A direct attack is uncharacteristic of the Shea types, they usually slowly warm up their assaults with feigned "appeals" to 'turn back from the schismatic trajectory" garbage.  Voris being a self-generated phenomenon, isn't groomed by EWTN/Catholic Answers and therefore a "traitor"as they see it like Gerry Matatics or Bob Sungenis   So a direct assault is necessary.  Matatics was hounded for years by that group calling Bishops and complaining about him long before Matatics adopted the Sede position, always keeping him in pitiful poverty and driving people away from great lectures.  And of course, the attacks on Sungenis for his views on science issues,  the Protestant preaching of the Neo-Catholics and the need for the conversion of jews and anti-catholicism within some jewish circles lead to shameless behavior by the Neo-Catholics.

The fact that Shea has misrepresented Voris's comment to leave a parish if it's heretical and turned it into "leave the Church" by implication and omission is so totally dishonest, and disgraceful in the full meaning of the word. 

I don't know if it's coordinated by humans or Satanic influence of events but Voris is banned from Catholic Answers discussions, and now bishops are raising their voices against him, (sounds like the playbook against Gerry Matatics all over again.)  Are the accusations of anti-semitism next?  Who of the neo-Catholics will toss that one out?  When will the accusations of personal scandal come out?  They are devastating to the clergy (if the man is straight) and while they can't have as devastating effect, they could still go a long way on a coordinated attack. 

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - Gerard - 04-15-2011

I was reminded of this quote from Pius X's "Pascendi" 

You could easily say that the Neo-Catholics are the children of the Modernists.  They hate the heirarchy of the Church prior to Vatican II in varying degrees, St. Peter was the first Pope and John XXIII was the second. 

"This being so, Venerable Brethren, there is little reason to wonder that the Modernists vent all their bitterness and hatred on Catholics who zealously fight the battles of the Church. There is no species of insult which they do not heap upon them, but their usual course is to charge them with ignorance or obstinacy. When an adversary rises up against them with an erudition and force that renders them redoubtable, they seek to make a conspiracy of silence around him to nullify the effects of his attack. This policy towards Catholics is the more invidious in that they belaud with admiration which knows no bounds the writers who range themselves on their side, hailing their works, exuding novelty in every page, with a chorus of applause."

Re: Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris - mikemac - 04-15-2011

(04-15-2011, 12:42 AM)tradne4163 Wrote: I saw the video Shea was talking about. It's great stuff.

Yeah I thought the same.