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Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Gregory I - 06-15-2011

Will God do such a thing? WHat is his revealed will about it?

WILL he do opposite of what he has promised or established?

If yes, then is God a liar?

If no, then how can God do what he does not will?


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - wulfrano - 06-15-2011

(06-15-2011, 02:52 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Will God do such a thing? WHat is his revealed will about it?

WILL he do opposite of what he has promised or established?

If yes, then is God a liar?

If no, then how can God do what he does not will?

(1) He did it in the Flood.
(2) He will do the opposite of a deluge when He ends the world with fire.
(3) God is always truthful.  What happens is that we are stupid and do not always understand Him.
(4) God is One with his will.


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Bakuryokuso - 06-15-2011

(06-15-2011, 03:12 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-15-2011, 02:52 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Will God do such a thing? WHat is his revealed will about it?

WILL he do opposite of what he has promised or established?

If yes, then is God a liar?

If no, then how can God do what he does not will?

(1) He did it in the Flood.
(2) He will do the opposite of a deluge when He ends the world with fire.
(3) God is always truthful.  What happens is that we are stupid and do not always understand Him.
(4) God is One with his will.

aye

30-some pages. gotta be patient.


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Stubborn - 06-15-2011

(06-14-2011, 07:13 PM)wulfrano Wrote: When God performs a miracle HE IS NOT BREAKING HIS OWN LAWS OF NATURE.

Well alrighty then!

So we can agree that first off, what see as being a miracle, is nothing at all to God.

The Doctrine of Divine Providence teaches us that it (Divine Providence) leaves no room for chance or for fate.

That nothing happens in the universe without God willing and allowing it. This statement must he taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin. 'Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives' is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, "and God intervenes everywhere."  Pay special notice to those last three words........"God intervenes everywhere". One could meditate for 1000 years on those last three words alone and never fully comprehend it.

Now, one may perversely believe that God, in His Divine Providence, would ignore one who is sincere and about to die unbaptized, yet grant that person salvation in spite of His law. Seems many saints at one time or another believed that, but what earthly father would leave their child wanting something that was an absolute necessity when the father could effortlessly provide it?

If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father, who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?

Our Lord will NEVER deny baptism to one who sincerely desires it. *THAT* is how God provides, *THAT* is how God, like the loving Heavenly Father that He is, proves His infinite love, mercy and justice for us - by providing to us what we need.

There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you.

 


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Gregory I - 06-15-2011

(06-15-2011, 03:12 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-15-2011, 02:52 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Will God do such a thing? WHat is his revealed will about it?

WILL he do opposite of what he has promised or established?

If yes, then is God a liar?

If no, then how can God do what he does not will?

(1) He did it in the Flood.
(2) He will do the opposite of a deluge when He ends the world with fire.
(3) God is always truthful.  What happens is that we are stupid and do not always understand Him.
(4) God is One with his will.

Can God flood the world today, here and now? CAN he WILL for it to be destroyed by a flood? What do you think of the promises of God; are they pointless?


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - wulfrano - 06-15-2011

(06-15-2011, 08:06 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:13 PM)wulfrano Wrote: When God performs a miracle HE IS NOT BREAKING HIS OWN LAWS OF NATURE.

Well alrighty then!

So we can agree that first off, what see as being a miracle, is nothing at all to God.

The Doctrine of Divine Providence teaches us that it (Divine Providence) leaves no room for chance or for fate.

That nothing happens in the universe without God willing and allowing it. This statement must he taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin. 'Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives' is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, "and God intervenes everywhere."  Pay special notice to those last three words........"God intervenes everywhere". One could meditate for 1000 years on those last three words alone and never fully comprehend it.

Now, one may perversely believe that God, in His Divine Providence, would ignore one who is sincere and about to die unbaptized, yet grant that person salvation in spite of His law. Seems many saints at one time or another believed that, but what earthly father would leave their child wanting something that was an absolute necessity when the father could effortlessly provide it?

If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father, who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?

Our Lord will NEVER deny baptism to one who sincerely desires it. *THAT* is how God provides, *THAT* is how God, like the loving Heavenly Father that He is, proves His infinite love, mercy and justice for us - by providing to us what we need.

There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you.
 

I appreciate you thoughts.  However, I prefer those of the Council of Trent, of Pope Pius IX, of Pope Pius X and of Pope Pius XII.


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - wulfrano - 06-15-2011

(06-15-2011, 07:31 PM)Gregory I Wrote:
(06-15-2011, 03:12 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-15-2011, 02:52 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Will God do such a thing? WHat is his revealed will about it?

WILL he do opposite of what he has promised or established?

If yes, then is God a liar?

If no, then how can God do what he does not will?

(1) He did it in the Flood.
(2) He will do the opposite of a deluge when He ends the world with fire.
(3) God is always truthful.  What happens is that we are stupid and do not always understand Him.
(4) God is One with his will.

Can God flood the world today, here and now? CAN he WILL for it to be destroyed by a flood? What do you think of the promises of God; are they pointless?


God will not destroy the world by flood again, not now not ever.  He promised.  That's the why and wherefore of the rainbow in Noah's time.  What God will do soon is burn it with, among other things,  solar flares.  He said so through St. Peter (read his second epistle).


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Gregory I - 06-15-2011

SO when GOd establishes his word, based upon a covenantal promise, he CANNOT turn against it, because to do so would be to go against his nature, right?

Well then, why would He make exceptions to the sacraments fro some people who have never even heard the gospel, which people, the apostle Paul tells us, are by their very LACK of knowledge blinded by Satan and considered reprobate?

Why would GOd circumvent the Divine promises he swore in the blood of his son, the sacraments, simply for people who have no idea who he even really is?

Why would he grant salvation to those who do not meet his standards and requirements? Yes, there are requirements for salvation.


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - wulfrano - 06-16-2011

(06-15-2011, 11:29 PM)Gregory I Wrote: SO when GOd establishes his word, based upon a covenantal promise, he CANNOT turn against it, because to do so would be to go against his nature, right?

Well then, why would He make exceptions to the sacraments fro some people who have never even heard the gospel, which people, the apostle Paul tells us, are by their very LACK of knowledge blinded by Satan and considered reprobate?

Why would GOd circumvent the Divine promises he swore in the blood of his son, the sacraments, simply for people who have no idea who he even really is?

Why would he grant salvation to those who do not meet his standards and requirements? Yes, there are requirements for salvation.

What God tells us will happen, will happen infallibly.

Those that reject the saving catholic religion are doomed.

Those that through no fault of their own ignore the saving catholic religion will have their opportunity to accept or reject.


Re: Another EENS, please be patient... - Stubborn - 06-16-2011

(06-15-2011, 09:18 PM)wulfrano Wrote: I appreciate you thoughts.  However, I prefer those of the Council of Trent, of Pope Pius IX, of Pope Pius X and of Pope Pius XII.

We agree again!