FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Church (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Catholicism (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Osama and "spiritual prozac" (/showthread.php?tid=44691)



Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Norbert - 05-02-2011

This is NOT a thread for discussion of Osama himself, there' s a thread for that.

"Spiritual prozac" is a fishie term I saw coined recently for the expansion of BoD into universal salvation and religious syncretism.  The form is most commonly takes where I'm at is people claiming that literal last second conversion experiences could suffice for the expiation of all sin, allow access in the heaven and (hopefully) and probably (!!!) happen all the time.

It got to the point that several people, all female, have told me that even though they believe that Osama Bin Laden died in a firefight, with a gun in his hands, using a woman as a human shield, that there's a good possibility that as the round that blew his head in half entered, he had time to confess...and they're yelling at people who refuse to fervently pray for the idea.  (Once again, this is not about Osama, it's ok if you aren't glad he's dead or think rejoicing is tacky, this is an "example").

So, i've cited popes, i've cited the infallible magisterium from multiples sources and eras, i've cited scripture countless times and ways, and all I get is increasing pigheadedness, hostiility, and even accusations of heterodoxy (from what, I can't imagine)...I'm starting to buy the FE position from some that there's a "conciliar religion".  What do I do about this?


Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - SaintSebastian - 05-02-2011

In general, an act of perfect charity right before death could suffice for salvation, but probably not for the full expiation of sin (ie purgation would be necessary before the soul could enter Heaven). That being said, a life of obstinate grievous sin can make it unlikely one's hardened heart would all of a sudden become open to grace, but all things are possible with God.

Likewise, we're supposed pray for our enemies, especially for their conversion and salvation, even at the last moment. As long as it's before one stands before the Judge at the instant of actual death, it's not too late. Some people labor all day in the field, and some barely at all and yet they may all receive the same pay. You shouldn't be upset if that happens.

From my understanding, the probability or improbability of deathbed conversions is in the realm of free opinions so you shouldn't be labeled as heterodox for that, nor should you label others as heterodox for favoring a different opinion. That being said, to say a last second conversion cannot ever suffice or that it infallibly always happens, IMO, seems to be straying from the right path.



Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Petertherock - 05-03-2011

Per a sermon on Hell by an SSPX priest he quoted one of the Saints as saying "Scarcely 1 in 100,000 deathbed conversions are sincere." Another Saint said, "A deathbed conversion is a greater miracle then someone being raised from the dead." How many people have we seen raised from the dead in our lifetime? Probably none.

Now we are learning that Osama wasn't killed in a firefight but was in fact unarmed. We are also learning that the story that his wife was used as a human shield isn't true either. But that's a story for another topic.




Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Landelinus - 05-03-2011

Spiritual Prozac indeed. Thankfully Dante didn't take this medicine or we'd have a much less interesting Divine Comedy with a really quick tour of an empty Inferno.

It seems to come down to an inability to admit that anyone goes to Hell, that God would permit eternal punishment.  I think it starts with pity - who would really want to wish Hell on anyone? - but ends with presumption - assuming all deserve Heaven and thereby minimizing the mystery of salvation and the boundless magnanimity of God.

I'm not a big fan of the "conciliar religion" term, but this is definitely a symptom of the post-conciliar mindset, which is unbalanced in many ways: heaven without hell, reward without punishment, love without justice, forgiveness without sin, "spirituality" without dogma.  The list goes on...



Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - SaintSebastian - 05-03-2011

(05-03-2011, 11:50 AM)Petertherock Wrote: Per a sermon on Hell by an SSPX priest he quoted one of the Saints as saying "Scarcely 1 in 100,000 deathbed conversions are sincere." Another Saint said, "A deathbed conversion is a greater miracle then someone being raised from the dead." How many people have we seen raised from the dead in our lifetime? Probably none.

Interesting. I would think they would simply be rare, but the few that did happen would be likely to be sincere. I would think the only insincere ones would be if someone was banking on living a bad life and then slipping in with a deathbed confession, but I've never met anyone with that plan--at least not nowadays.

Like I said before, I think it's difficult, but not impossible. Here's a little piece on this by Garrigou-Lagrange

http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/ev8.php#b4




Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Stubborn - 05-03-2011

(05-02-2011, 08:25 PM)Norbert Wrote: It got to the point that several people, all female, have told me that even though they believe that Osama Bin Laden died in a firefight, with a gun in his hands, using a woman as a human shield, that there's a good possibility that as the round that blew his head in half entered, he had time to confess....

.....he had time to confess - confess to who? Allah?

No doubt his Allah was waiting with gnashing teeth to drag him down to his heaven.






Re: Osama and "spiritual prozac" - Norbert - 05-03-2011

(05-03-2011, 01:12 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(05-02-2011, 08:25 PM)Norbert Wrote: It got to the point that several people, all female, have told me that even though they believe that Osama Bin Laden died in a firefight, with a gun in his hands, using a woman as a human shield, that there's a good possibility that as the round that blew his head in half entered, he had time to confess....

.....he had time to confess - confess to who? Allah?

No doubt his Allah was waiting with gnashing teeth to drag him down to his heaven.

Yeah.  Like I said not reasonable.  Well it makes it more annoying that he might have been unarmed since now people are going to go back to calling it a murder.  (it makes it easier for them to say murder victims go to heaven for some reason).