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Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Printable Version

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Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - crusaderfortruth3372 - 05-18-2011

Wow, this is a very informative thread!! Especially page 5.....Very good reading.
Deo Gratias! ;D


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Bakuryokuso - 05-18-2011

(05-18-2011, 01:11 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(05-18-2011, 12:45 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Gerard the Silver Surfer - I saw Bob Larson in person, wayyyyyy back inna day.

What did you think of him?  BTW, is that "Puck" from Alpha Flight as your current Avatar?

Larson struck me as a very normal Evangelical speaker, rather tame... with a focus on exorcism obviously but otherwise fairly typical. He gave a talk and then a time of prayer and "of course" one single person had a demonic manifestation and he cast out the demon, and I heard her call in to his radio show a few days later, all happy and joyful.

I say "of course" but it's like at Benny Hinn meetings "of course" someone will be miraculously healed... at Peter Youngren crusades "of course" many folks will "get saved", etc.

In my many years of Evangelical/Charismatic church attendance I saw a few demonic manifestations, but they suddenly become very common around Bob Larson and of course he kicks the demons' arses. It just all seems a little pre-programmed as it were.

Yes it is Puck from Alpha Flight - nice catch! Actually today Alpha Flight #0.1 was released, prior to a maxi-series written by Greg pak (who just did a Silver Surfer mini-series) and Fred Van Lente (writer of Action Philosophers and Comic Book Comics which I really enjoy) with artist Dale Eaglesham (who recently finished a run on Fantastic Four).

Alaric was pointing out that some see Canadian as wussies... I guess Puck, like Wolverine, for me, typifies a different sort of Canadian... like Devoted Knuckles in some was... there's even a study suggesting Don Cherry is transforming Canadian culture into something grittier and more militaristic...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/992278--don-cherry-s-the-face-of-canada-s-new-rock-em-sock-em-politics-study
http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-04-13-AlphaFlightPointOne_N.htm


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Cetil - 05-19-2011

(05-18-2011, 06:52 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: Cetil, thank you for the interview with Fr. Amorth. Here is one of many good snippets from said interview:

30 Days: How does the demon set about seducing people?  

Fr. Amorth: His strategy is always along the same lines. I have told him this and he admits it.. He makes people believe that hell does not exist, that sin does not exist, and that he is nothing but one more experience to try out. Concupiscence, success and power are the three great passions on which Satan relies.  


Fr. Amorth says many similar things that Fr. Malachi Martin said on a tape in the early 90's. Non-believing, incompetent bishops, etc. Does anyone know if Fr. Amorth is traditional? Does he use other old rites besides the exorcism rite?   

Hi Crusader Philly,
  Greetings from Mindanao. :) I don't know that Father Amorth says the TLM but it would not surprise me. He is very old, close to 90 so he probably knew the TLM as well as anyone.  I remember he did say in one of his books that the demons hate Latin prayers. He notes in this 2007 interview that JPII also performed some exorcisms during his pontificate.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1842528/posts

C.


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Phillipus Iacobus - 05-19-2011

Hi Cetil :hello!:

My Filipino side of the family is from San Francisco del Monte, Quezon City. I also have relatives with roots in Dumaguete City.

Thanks for the links.

Mag Ingat Ka!

Phillip (San Francisco, USA)


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Norbert - 05-19-2011

Just popped in to say that the idea that the current church (which JPII left us with ) "looks serenely at the past" is laughable (I literally chuckled).  People here complain about things the Church did in the past CONSTANTLY.


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - PeterII - 05-19-2011

There is no reason to believe any of this nonsense. 

What evidence shows that Fr. Amorth or Fr. Malachi Martin were dealing with preternatural forces?


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - newyorkcatholic - 05-19-2011

(05-18-2011, 08:46 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote:
(05-18-2011, 03:32 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: John Paul II, however, is the antithesis of this traditional Catholicism which we believe to be the truth. He incarnated in very public terms what we can call "liberal Catholicism", a corruption of the faith that excommunicated the Church's past and her hard teachings concerning salvation that had bothered those outside the Church for so long.

OK, let's be careful to keep things distinct here - excommunication is a big word. +Lefebvre and the Bishops he consecrated were excommunicated automatically and of course this was lifted by JP2's own right-hand man. For all his errors regarding the SSPX, JP2 permitted the FSSP and some diocesan TLM's to exist.

(05-18-2011, 03:32 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: If an impenitent man like that can be saved, why even bother with traditional Catholicism at all? Certainly, it becomes at least irrelevant, if not spurious. After all, you can lead a regular Novus Ordo Catholic life, indistinguishable from a Protestant, and be on the road to salvation. Heck, even a Muslim or a Jew can!

As far as I can see the thing is: unless he had deathbed conversion, there's no way John Paul II, a man who publicly forfeited Catholic teaching in the name of Ecumenism, be in Heaven.

It's the same thing as saying Luther is in Heaven, and so forth.

Unless, of course, God has changed the rules and faith is no longer a requisite for salvation.

This seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. You're equating JP2 with Luther. Reading Michael Davies' Cranmer's Godly Order makes it abundantly clear that Luther was a heinous heretic who rejected the most basic Catholic teachings on justification, transubstantiation, faith and works, indulgences, the Papacy, the priesthood, the Bible and on and on and on.

I was a Protestant. I came to the Catholic church to join them. Communion was out of the question until my formal conversion. My parish priest was a self-described "Vatican II baby" and yet of course I had to be confirmed with the Catholic profession of faith and everything before being admitted to the church.

So I think you're over-inflating the issue here, sort of making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yes, JP2 was extremely misguided on ecumenism but it's not like he gave the Eucharist to all comers or started ordaining Protestants as Catholic bishops, etc. I mean, if all that was true, there'd be no purpose for an Anglican Ordinariate in the first place.

I see it a bit like limbo... to me it's a lot of theological speculation that's gone haywire. And yeah the Pope can blather and fudge words and lots of people can get confused. But the church is still basically intact. Mortal sin is still what it is: lack of Sunday obligation, artificial birth control, communion without confession, not recognizing the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, fornication... these are all still mortal sins that entail eternal hellfire... according to the church.

Devout neo-Catholics are absolutely distinguishable from Protestants. Just look at their attitude towards Our Mother. A typical Protestant believes it's a sin to pray to Mary, that it verges on idolatry, that it is disgusting to their concept of a "Christian conscience". But you don't have to go far to find a neo-Catholic who is dedicated to Our Lady, or one have has given their life over to the Immaculate. That's not what I would describe as indistinguishable.

The voice of reason!  Thank you!

Those traditionalists who do equate "neo-Cath" with "protestant" should know that many of us on this forum (myself included) were everything-is-great-about-JP2, neo-Catholic sorts at one point before we came to know more about tradition.  So that equation with protestantism will never fly with us, will actually prevent us from seeing your points clearly, because we know it is BS.  I was there, I went only to the NO, and I absolutely abhorred the idea of going to a Protestant service, despite superficial similarities with Lutherans or whatever I knew the serious differences.


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - alaric - 05-19-2011

(05-19-2011, 09:37 AM)PeterII Wrote: There is no reason to believe any of this nonsense. 

What evidence shows that Fr. Amorth or Fr. Malachi Martin were dealing with preternatural forces?
None, so the whole point is moot.


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - Gerard - 05-19-2011

(05-19-2011, 09:37 AM)PeterII Wrote: There is no reason to believe any of this nonsense. 

What evidence shows that Fr. Amorth or Fr. Malachi Martin were dealing with preternatural forces?

What is your point?  There is no "reason" to believe or disbelieve the testimony of either priest.  And exactly how do you quantify "evidence" of the preternatural or the supernatural for that matter? 


Re: Rome’s exorcist finding Bl. John Paul II effective against Satan. - PeterII - 05-19-2011

My point is that people are being superstitious.  Fr. Amorth has to justify his appointment, and Fr. Malachi Martin was selling books.  There ought to be evidence of extraordinary phenomena to show that we're not just dealing with crazy people here.

"JP II is a powerful intercessor because the devil told me so" doesn't cut it.  This is the Novus Ordo irrationally propogating the cult of JP II.