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3 Natures in Christ - Printable Version

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Re: 3 Natures in Christ - wulfrano - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 01:53 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-03-2011, 01:01 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Walty:

God does NOT EVER take from HIMSELF to create another. He creates ex nihilo. FROM nothing. It is not HIMSELF he puts in us, it is a completely separate created soul that has no relation to the divine essence. It is SIMILAR in terms of it being an intelligible thing (SOmething you can understand but not picture or imagine) and GOd is intelligible as well. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest your opinion. Perhaps you can give a rational basis for your opinion?

That's not true.  He takes from His existence and gives it to us.  It doesn't diminish His existence in any way, but His existence is the source.  I'm not saying they are the same either.

But, this is why we are taught that Christ, in some way, is inside all of us. 

What do the great saints say?  They all say the same thing:  Lord God Almighty, have mercy on us sinners.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Walty - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 06:26 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(08-03-2011, 01:53 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-03-2011, 01:01 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Walty:

God does NOT EVER take from HIMSELF to create another. He creates ex nihilo. FROM nothing. It is not HIMSELF he puts in us, it is a completely separate created soul that has no relation to the divine essence. It is SIMILAR in terms of it being an intelligible thing (SOmething you can understand but not picture or imagine) and GOd is intelligible as well. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest your opinion. Perhaps you can give a rational basis for your opinion?

That's not true.  He takes from His existence and gives it to us.  It doesn't diminish His existence in any way, but His existence is the source.  I'm not saying they are the same either.

But, this is why we are taught that Christ, in some way, is inside all of us. 

What do the great saints say?  They all say the same thing:  Lord God Almighty, have mercy on us sinners.

I'm not denying that.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Gregory I - 08-03-2011

that is entheism. God-in-all-ism.

Show me where the fathers, the Church, or her approved theologians say that the creation of the soul is from God's own being. ALL of the Fathers and theologians teach God creates IMMEDIATE FROM NOTHING. THe soul has no origin except the divine mind and will.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - wulfrano - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 07:26 PM)Gregory I Wrote: that is entheism. God-in-all-ism.

Show me where the fathers, the Church, or her approved theologians say that the creation of the soul is from God's own being. ALL of the Fathers and theologians teach God creates IMMEDIATE FROM NOTHING. THe soul has no origin except the divine mind and will.

This.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Walty - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 07:26 PM)Gregory I Wrote: that is entheism. God-in-all-ism.

Show me where the fathers, the Church, or her approved theologians say that the creation of the soul is from God's own being. ALL of the Fathers and theologians teach God creates IMMEDIATE FROM NOTHING. THe soul has no origin except the divine mind and will.

That's not really my point though.  My point is that nothing comes from nothing.  So everything that is made contains some small mark of the Creator.  He is the ONLY source of existence.  So when we exist, we share what He already had.  We receive the gift which He gives to us, the only One able to give.  Our soul comes from Him in a special way and does not come from nowhere.

I admit that this is a theological view that has a bit of neo-Platonic flare to it, but it's most certainly not some new theory I'm espousing nor is it pantheistic in any way.  

Men are not God.  Nothing is God but God, the Trinity, in 3 Persons.  In fact, I usually stress the radical transcendence of God and consistently say that that is the key to understanding all philosophy and theology.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - wulfrano - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 07:33 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-03-2011, 07:26 PM)Gregory I Wrote: that is entheism. God-in-all-ism.

Show me where the fathers, the Church, or her approved theologians say that the creation of the soul is from God's own being. ALL of the Fathers and theologians teach God creates IMMEDIATE FROM NOTHING. THe soul has no origin except the divine mind and will.

That's not really my point though.  My point is that nothing comes from nothing.  So everything that is made contains some small mark of the Creator.  He is the ONLY source of existence.  So when we exist, we share what He already had.  We receive the gift which He gives to us, the only One able to give.  Our soul comes from Him in a special way and does not come from nowhere.

I admit that this is a theological view that has a bit of neo-Platonic flare to it, but it's most certainly not some new theory I'm espousing nor is it pantheistic in any way.  

Men are not God.  Nothing is God but God, the Trinity, in 3 Persons.  In fact, I usually stress the radical transcendence of God and consistently say that that is the key to understanding all philosophy and theology.


"Ex nihilo".  Like Gregory says.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Doce Me - 08-03-2011

God made man OUT OF nothing, but IN His own image.  Everything that exists is like God in that it exists. It's existence is from God, from I Am Who Am. It is held in existence every moment by God.  "God is everywhere" is something Catholic children know, not just a false teaching perverted by pantheists.

The goodness in all things is from God and is indeed His mark in them.  The world shows forth the Glory of God.



Re: 3 Natures in Christ - wulfrano - 08-03-2011

(08-03-2011, 09:08 PM)Doce Me Wrote: God made man OUT OF nothing, but IN His own image.  Everything that exists is like God in that it exists. It's existence is from God, from I Am Who Am. It is held in existence every moment by God.  "God is everywhere" is something Catholic children know, not just a false teaching perverted by pantheists.

The goodness in all things is from God and is indeed His mark in them.  The world shows forth the Glory of God.

This.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Gregory I - 08-03-2011

YEP. Doce got something right *condescendingly.*

;D

Joke.

Anyway, my point is that all existence is from God, but is not like we are being eternally poured forth from the divine being at every second. We are not like the holy spirit, proceeding from the father and the son.

In him we live, move and have our being. IN him, not eternally being poured out from him.


Re: 3 Natures in Christ - Walty - 08-03-2011

I was just reading some St. Gregory of Nazianzen and he said what I am saying.  I'll find the quote and put it up tomorrow.