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Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Printable Version

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Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Joshua - 07-30-2011

Augstine Baker Wrote:I say this simply because you can sing Glorias and even Alleluia, but unless you have the Catholic Faith, whole and entire, you can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

... and I say this simply because no matter what intellectual mastery you possess of the teachings of Holy Mother Church, it will amount to dust if you do not fulfill one's obligation to offer worship to God.


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Augstine Baker - 07-30-2011

(07-30-2011, 10:46 PM)Joshua Wrote:
Augstine Baker Wrote:I say this simply because you can sing Glorias and even Alleluia, but unless you have the Catholic Faith, whole and entire, you can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

... and I say this simply because no matter what intellectual mastery you possess of the teachings of Holy Mother Church, it will amount to dust if you do not fulfill one's obligation to offer worship to God.

Just out of curiosity, what is your canonical responsibility as regards attendance at Mass?


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Joshua - 07-30-2011

Augstine Baker Wrote:Just out of curiosity, what is your canonical responsibility as regards attendance at Mass?

One must attend Mass on Sundays and all Holy Days of Obligation on pain of mortal sin unless one is severely and physically impeded from doing so. Surely you knew that, yes?

The nature of the Liturgy (The Mass and the Divine Office) in being the public and official worship of Holy Mother Church means that the graces it effects are mystically and universally provided to all members of the Church in a state of grace. Hence, at no time (within a state of grace), are we ever severed from the merit and efficacious grace of the Liturgy, as given to us by Christ Himself.


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Augstine Baker - 07-30-2011

(07-30-2011, 11:32 PM)Joshua Wrote:
Augstine Baker Wrote:Just out of curiosity, what is your canonical responsibility as regards attendance at Mass?

One must attend Mass on Sundays and all Holy Days of Obligation on pain of mortal sin unless one is severely and physically impeded from doing so. Surely you knew that, yes?

The nature of the Liturgy (The Mass and the Divine Office) in being the public and official worship of Holy Mother Church means that the graces it effects are mystically and universally provided to all members of the Church in a state of grace. Hence, at no time (within a state of grace), are we ever severed from the merit and efficacious grace of the Liturgy, as given to us by Christ Himself.

Unless one is severely impeded? Surely you realize the canonical expectations with respect to distance traveled?

Does that canon require you to attend the NO?


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - m.PR - 07-30-2011

(07-30-2011, 11:42 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Unless one is severely impeded? Surely you realize the canonical expectations with respect to distance traveled?

Does that canon require you to attend the NO?

If you live too far away from a church to go to Sunday Mass on a weekly basis, then you are "severely and physically impeded" and are therefore dispensed.


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Servire Deo - 07-30-2011

(07-30-2011, 11:43 PM)m.PR Wrote:
(07-30-2011, 11:42 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Unless one is severely impeded? Surely you realize the canonical expectations with respect to distance traveled?

Does that canon require you to attend the NO?

If you live too far away from a church to go to Sunday Mass on a weekly basis, then you are "severely and physically impeded" and are therefore dispensed.

How far is "too far"? And what if you choose to be far away for work purposes (as opposed to being born/raised in the area)?


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Augstine Baker - 07-30-2011

I know the the Lay Magisterium of Traditionalism might say that attending the NO is a mortal sin, but I'm not so sure about that.

Anyhow, this is simply proof that I can hold the Catholic Faith without the Liturgy.  One is superior to the other and more essential to your salvation. 

Lots of people have the Catholic Faith without ever having seen a priest, much less a Mass or even a TLM.


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - m.PR - 07-30-2011

(07-30-2011, 11:45 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-30-2011, 11:43 PM)m.PR Wrote:
(07-30-2011, 11:42 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Unless one is severely impeded? Surely you realize the canonical expectations with respect to distance traveled?

Does that canon require you to attend the NO?

If you live too far away from a church to go to Sunday Mass on a weekly basis, then you are "severely and physically impeded" and are therefore dispensed.

How far is "too far"? And what if you choose to be far away for work purposes (as opposed to being born/raised in the area)?

It would be wrong to deliberately choose to be far away from a Catholic church, I'd say. How far is too far is very subjective, depending on factors such as whether a person has a car, can he afford the gas, does he have small children, etc. It is something to be decided by each individual with the counsel of a priest, just like NFP.

edit: one can choose to live far away from a Catholic church, as long as it isn't for the purpose of avoiding Mass.


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Augstine Baker - 07-30-2011

Point being, you can be a heretic and have the  Liturgy and an Orthodox Catholic and not have the Liturgy.

What's more important?


Re: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good - Servire Deo - 07-31-2011

(07-30-2011, 11:59 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: Point being, you can be a heretic and have the  Liturgy and an Orthodox Catholic and not have the Liturgy.

What's more important?

Obviously not the heretic, since one would be outside the Church.