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The heresy of Americanism! - LoneWolfRadTrad - 07-28-2011

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/americanism/index.htm

Any thoughts?


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Servire Deo - 07-29-2011

My thoughts are many on this forum subscribe to Americanism.


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Joshua - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 02:37 AM)Servire Deo Wrote: My thoughts are many on this forum subscribe to Americanism.

I've yet to see anyone on this forum deny the right of the Church's social doctrine to influence the civil domain. Have you?


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - LoneWolfRadTrad - 07-29-2011

I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Joshua - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

So? ... That's not what Americanism is by a long shot. One can certainly be a supporter of the Republican Party and uphold the Constitution as one of the basis for any legitimate law in this country and still be a faithful Catholic. Americanism was/is primarily a movement to sever and divorce the Church from the affairs of the State.

In addition, it would seem that one of the underlying principles in your comment is that the U.S. Constitution is incompatible with Catholicism. Am I wrong in this deduction or, if not, where does the Constitution contradict Catholic teachings?


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Baskerville - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

Is your preference one of die hard democrats who fight tooth and nail for abortion?


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Servire Deo - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 03:22 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

So? ... That's not what Americanism is by a long shot. One can certainly be a supporter of the Republican Party and uphold the Constitution as one of the basis for any legitimate law in this country and still be a faithful Catholic. Americanism was/is primarily a movement to sever and divorce the Church from the affairs of the State.

In addition, it would seem that one of the underlying principles in your comment is that the U.S. Constitution is incompatible with Catholicism. Am I wrong in this deduction or, if not, where does the Constitution contradict Catholic teachings?

The part in the 1st Amendment than demands freedom of religion.


(07-29-2011, 03:38 AM)Baskerville Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

Is your preference one of die hard democrats who fight tooth and nail for abortion?

The right to get an abortion is in the Constitution. Servicemen take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 12:11 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:22 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

So? ... That's not what Americanism is by a long shot. One can certainly be a supporter of the Republican Party and uphold the Constitution as one of the basis for any legitimate law in this country and still be a faithful Catholic. Americanism was/is primarily a movement to sever and divorce the Church from the affairs of the State.

In addition, it would seem that one of the underlying principles in your comment is that the U.S. Constitution is incompatible with Catholicism. Am I wrong in this deduction or, if not, where does the Constitution contradict Catholic teachings?

The part in the 1st Amendment than demands freedom of religion.

Have you ever actually read the first amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The point is that the government can't stop you from praying and it can't force you to be a heretical Anglican.  Maybe you would prefer that Barack Obama be the leader of some kind of American church? (You may argue that he is the head of the Church of Relative Indifferentism, and I wouldn't stop you)

Here's the crux of Americanism: the Church saw that people were taking the American model of religious freedom and saying that it should be applied in traditionally Catholic countries. That part is wrong. But where religious freedom protects people from heresy, then it is right. "Americanism" wasn't an attack on American freedom-- just the misapplication of it against Truth. Freedom can either serve Truth or attack it. Where it guards people from evil, it's not there heresy of Americanism.

Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:38 AM)Baskerville Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

Is your preference one of die hard democrats who fight tooth and nail for abortion?

The right to get an abortion is in the Constitution. Servicemen take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.

It's not actually in there , no matter how many times I read it (nor is "privacy", which is what abortion hinges on).  I know, I know... tell it to the justices... But a bad interpretation does not an abortion clause make.


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - Servire Deo - 07-29-2011

Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.


Re: The heresy of Americanism! - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 07-29-2011

(07-29-2011, 12:27 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

Ok.  But it doesn't mean whatever Servire Deo says it means.  Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

That said, I'm up for talking about switching to a new government.  Something with some limits on who's in charge.