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Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - jovan66102 - 09-11-2011

(09-11-2011, 04:19 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: This makes no sense to me as I have read many of his books and the way he treats the Sacraments (even though in Anglicanism are null and void) he refers to them that would be completely alien to any type of low church Anglican of his time or even today. So he may have been a solid member of low church but he def did not held those believes.

I do not think you can hold a person accountable for his entire theological world view from one book. That is why I referred to the body of his work and not to "mere Christianity" which to me was more of a philosophical approach at the Christianity in general rather than a summary of Christian dogma.

Also I never said he was a high church Anglican or even an Anglo-Catholic though his views by the end of his life tend to lean very much on the Catholic view rather than the protestant one. I would say that Lewis was a person that much like Merton kinda goes off the rails in parts one because he simply did not know any better and the other because he got him self lost. All through history you have people like this specially when it comes to deal with with the Church and what it believes, you got Tertullian, Origen and the people that make Origen look bad which were his followers.

I was replying to a post in which he was defined as an Anglo-Catholic. However, I am a big fan of Lewis and I've read most of what he wrote fiction, theology, philosophy, literary criticism and many of his letters, etc. I came out of Anglo-Catholicism before the great liberal sweep turned it into a smells'n'bells refuge for unrepentant sodomites which, to a great extent it now is in the Anglican Communion, so I think I have some conception of what Lewis might have thought of Anglo-Catholicism. He was solidly orthodox in his Christology, but, honestly, in all my reading of him, I never got the feeling that he was particularly 'catholic'. The impression I got was that he was a typical Unionist Irish protestant. Loyal to the Crown, to the Establishment and to traditional 'English values', but in no way 'catholic'.


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - devotedknuckles - 09-11-2011

Some posts on here need ro be corrected.
In no way shape or form csn the sspx be talked about in th same brethren as these prod  heretics. The sspx has never left the church, nver apostazied, are not heritics. The preset discussion with Rome is internal between Catholics and is NOT about conversion.
Unless your speaking about Rome conerting back to te cstholic faith that is.
It's insulting to suggest the sspx are prods.
Conversion with no strings attached
that's that



Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - Someone1776 - 09-11-2011

(09-11-2011, 08:00 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Some posts on here need ro be corrected.
In no way shape or form csn the sspx be talked about in th same brethren as these prod  heretics. The sspx has never left the church, nver apostazied, are not heritics. The preset discussion with Rome is internal between Catholics and is NOT about conversion.
Unless your speaking about Rome conerting back to te cstholic faith that is.
It's insulting to suggest the sspx are prods.
Conversion with no strings attached
that's that

I stated the SSPX is within the church. It would seem more likely you would need to negotiate with people outside of the church than people within it, no? 


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - jovan66102 - 09-11-2011

(09-11-2011, 08:00 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Conversion with no strings attached

So, my friend, you oppose the Unia to which I belong? We got to keep our Liturgy, devotional practices, etc. Quite a few 'strings attached'! :laughing:


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - devotedknuckles - 09-11-2011

Which do you belong? Anyway yeah for the most part when I hes"I'll convert but here are my demands"
i get grumpy
guess I'm a simple man
sip



Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - devotedknuckles - 09-11-2011

1777
almos every order or riligous group in the burch ha Shad to negeotiate for something eih chrch beurocrats such is life. Those are internal matters not one of conversion.
Sip



Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - Roger the Shrubber - 09-11-2011

CS Lewis was not very Catholic in his theology.  I have read most of what he had written that is still in print. 

For one thing, he wrote with a sledge hammer, and it would be very difficult to get an kind of fine detail for his thoughts on deep things from his apologetic writing.  Though he was very well educated in philosophy, he was rather intentionally imprecise when it came to making fine distinctions.  Like with the statement about statues, he chose to write so as to appease the largest market.  Mere Christianity was an attempt to make the case for Christian Theism in the most plane particulars.  Indifferentism is very understandable from a new convert, but is troubling from a seasoned apologist.

CS Lewis's lack of Catholic conversion, despite his rather clear belief in the supernatural, at times greatly strained his relationship JRR Tolkien.  CS Lewis even had fleeting interests in rather occult activities long after his conversion.

CS Lewis's apologetic material does have some real value for recent converts or for agnostics however.  His avoidance of detail actually becomes an asset of sorts.


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - mikemac - 09-11-2011

Besides the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC) there's also the Anglican Use Catholics in the States.  Apparently the Anglican Use Catholics are in communion with Rome but have been allowed to keep their own liturgy.

Father Gruner sent me the first part of a book called 'Russian Sunrise'.  'Russian Sunrise' is a fictional book by Bruce W Walters about a period prior to and after the consecration of Russia.  In the book it compares the Anglican Use Catholics in communion with Rome and keeping their liturgy with the Russian Orthodox coming into communion with Rome and keeping their Mass of Saint Justin Martyr.  Apparently the Mass of Saint Justin Martyr recognizes both the Immaculate Conception and the Filioque.  And apparently the Orthodox Churches haven't made the Immaculate Conception and the Filioque part of their dogma because they haven't been able to bring the nationalistic Orthodox Churches together for a council to declare the dogma without the supremacy of the See of Peter.  Chapter 23 has an excellent dialogue between Pope Nicholas (representing Pope Benedict) and Patriarch Filaret with Pope Nicholas recognizing the suicide of altering the Latin Liturgy (which prevented the Russian Orthodox from coming into communion with Rome as they kept their Slavonic Liturgy untouched) and Patriarch Filaret seeing the folly of nationalism and not recognizing the See of Peter.  The Russian Orthodox would be the 23rd Eastern Catholic Church in communion with Rome that have kept their own liturgy.  It is really a good book, so much so that I am going to order the whole book so I can read Part Two.
http://www.fatimashoppe.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1432&Itemid=9&vmcchk=1&Itemid=9


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - jovan66102 - 09-11-2011

(09-11-2011, 08:42 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Which do you belong? Anyway yeah for the most part when I hes"I'll convert but here are my demands"
i get grumpy
guess I'm a simple man
sip

I'm a Serbian Rite Catholic under the Ukrainian Eparch of Edmonton in Canada and the Ruthenian Eparch of Parma in the States (depending on where I am :)). In the Old Country we are the Eparchy of Križevci, which entered Union with Rome in 1777.


Re: Canadian Anglicans vote to unite with Rome - mikemac - 09-11-2011

(09-11-2011, 10:08 PM)mikemac Wrote: Besides the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC) there's also the Anglican Use Catholics in the States.  Apparently the Anglican Use Catholics are in communion with Rome but have been allowed to keep their own liturgy.

Father Gruner sent me the first part of a book called 'Russian Sunrise'.  'Russian Sunrise' is a fictional book by Bruce W Walters about a period prior to and after the consecration of Russia.  In the book it compares the Anglican Use Catholics in communion with Rome and keeping their liturgy with the Russian Orthodox coming into communion with Rome and keeping their Mass of Saint Justin Martyr.  Apparently the Mass of Saint Justin Martyr recognizes both the Immaculate Conception and the Filioque.  And apparently the Orthodox Churches haven't made the Immaculate Conception and the Filioque part of their dogma because they haven't been able to bring the nationalistic Orthodox Churches together for a council to declare the dogma without the supremacy of the See of Peter.  Chapter 23 has an excellent dialogue between Pope Nicholas (representing Pope Benedict) and Patriarch Filaret with Pope Nicholas recognizing the suicide of altering the Latin Liturgy (which prevented the Russian Orthodox from coming into communion with Rome as they kept their Slavonic Liturgy untouched) and Patriarch Filaret seeing the folly of nationalism and not recognizing the See of Peter.  The Russian Orthodox would be the 23rd Eastern Catholic Church in communion with Rome that have kept their own liturgy.  It is really a good book, so much so that I am going to order the whole book so I can read Part Two.
http://www.fatimashoppe.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1432&Itemid=9&vmcchk=1&Itemid=9

The old Slavonic language like Latin is just used in the liturgies, not in every day use anymore.  So the meaning of the liturgy can never change in Latin or old Slavonic like it can in the vernacular.  An example being something that was written in English say two hundred years ago may not have the same meaning today.