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Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - Printable Version

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Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - James02 - 12-09-2011

If man is left to pure justice, where will he end up?


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - randomtradguy - 12-09-2011

what does the phrase 'pure justice' mean?


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - James02 - 12-09-2011

No Mercy.  He gets his due.  Consider this parable:
Quote: But which of you having a servant ploughing, or feeding cattle, will say to him, when he is come from the field: Immediately go, sit down to meat: [8] And will not rather say to him: Make ready my supper, and gird thyself, and serve me, whilst I eat and drink, and afterwards thou shalt eat and drink? [9] Doth he thank that servant, for doing the things which he commanded him? [10] I think not. So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do. 



Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - James02 - 12-09-2011

If you want to know about perfect justice, consider this:
Quote: For there is no respect of persons with God. [12] For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law.

Pure Justice leads to ????


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - randomtradguy - 12-09-2011

Do you mean pure justice as in, if God is justice, then we all are going to hell without Him?
I agree that we go to hell without God.


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - Vetus Ordo - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 06:58 PM)randomtradguy Wrote: I'm e-mailing every priest I know and talking to every priest I know about this, and I will convert to some other ancient Christian sect if this is what the Church believes.

What kind of faith is that?

You people don't want the truth, you don't want answers, you want things to fit your mould and then and only then if you like them and understand them, then you "accept" them. Grow up. Deal with scripture, deal with doctrine, deal with the pure evangelical truths of our faith, deal with things that are ultimately unexplainable and don't go about screaming like little girls.


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - randomtradguy - 12-09-2011

(12-09-2011, 07:46 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-09-2011, 06:58 PM)randomtradguy Wrote: I'm e-mailing every priest I know and talking to every priest I know about this, and I will convert to some other ancient Christian sect if this is what the Church believes.

What kind of faith is that?

You people don't want the truth, you don't want answers, you want things to fit your mould and then and only then if you like them and understand them, then you "accept" them. Grow up. Deal with scripture, deal with doctrine, deal with the pure evangelical truths of our faith, deal with things that are ultimately unexplainable and don't go about screaming like little girls.

Seriously, it's just a matter of me not thinking something makes sense. I'd rather see if it makes sense than go around making shit fit together and finding out I was stupid later.
screw this forum.
I'll probably remain Catholic. My favorite Catholic heroes are the Russian Catholic martyrs and Fr. Leonid and all those schismatics who became Catholic. But, Orange needs to be extremely examined by me.


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - James02 - 12-09-2011

Quote: I agree that we go to hell without God.

We go to hell because God is not there.  By Justice, you can not enter heaven.  Furthermore some Saints and Mystics say that the damned flee to hell because of the Beatific vision.  Therefore, you go to hell BECAUSE of God.  I agree with this.

But we will go with what you say, if what you mean is that without God, we will remain fallen.  So it is just for God to send every man to hell.  We have proven that.  Now, what claim do you have on God for mercy?  By the very definition of Mercy, you have no claim.  If you do good, you do as you ought.  If you sin once, you just lost heaven.  Only in Mercy can you be saved.  And you can not force that from God.  You have no claim.  Take that where it leads, and you end up with the Catholic Faith.  You end up with Orange.


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - Vetus Ordo - 12-09-2011

"Screw this forum"?

What's up with that attitude? You can't have a reasonable debate about things? You can't face the truth? So what if you didn't know that predestination was Catholic doctrine before? Know you know and you should be glad that it has finally arrived at your attention since it's a fundamental and liberating truth of faith. Instead of overreacting emotionally, you should calm down and ponder about these eternal truths.


Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - James02 - 12-09-2011

People who have a problem with Orange do NOT have a problem with predestination.  For by predestination the sinner escapes Justice at so great a cost.  The torment and death of an innocent Man, all the agony witnessed by His Sorrowful Mother whose heart was pierced by a sword of sorrow.  Predestination is Mercy.

No, those who contend with Orange contend with Original Sin, that we are fallen.  Just look at what Pelagius taught, and it becomes very clear.