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Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - Printable Version

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Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - alphonsusjr - 01-26-2012

(01-26-2012, 11:23 PM)PerfectoOdio1099 Wrote: I would like to preface this post by saying I am not, nor have I been, a member of the TFP. I am however, a Catholic....

Whether you're a member of the TFP or not, you're quite welcome to weigh in, and I'm glad you did. In fact, I'd love to hear from more people sympathetic with them. Thus far I'm inclined to be a friend of the TFP.

Edit: I've just finished reading the article to which you linked. A powerful defense. Many thanks for that.


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - PerfectoOdio1099 - 01-27-2012

(01-26-2012, 11:51 PM)alphonsusjr Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 11:23 PM)PerfectoOdio1099 Wrote: I would like to preface this post by saying I am not, nor have I been, a member of the TFP. I am however, a Catholic....

Whether you're a member of the TFP or not, you're quite welcome to weigh in, and I'm glad you did. In fact, I'd love to hear from more people sympathetic with them. Thus far I'm inclined to be a friend of the TFP.

Edit: I've just finished reading the article to which you linked. A powerful defense. Many thanks for that.

  Excellent, glad I could be of help. It's good to see that at least someone judges on the basis of post content, rather than by the number of posts.



Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - Warrenton - 01-27-2012

(01-26-2012, 11:23 PM)PerfectoOdio1099 Wrote: I know that you will all dismiss me immediately since this is my first post.

Not so!  I am new myself.  I think it obvious that in the face of the ongoing societal revolution (which is not a new idea - Belloc perceived it, Max Weber perceived it, to name just two) traditionalist Catholics must do something.  The notion of aggiornamento with the modern, or post modern mindset is beyond ridiculous.  There was an interesting article posted in another thread from a rabbi who wrote something to the effect of "the battle today is between the forces of doubt and the forces of certainty."  The rabbi left no doubt that he was on the side of the doubters - in other words, the modern mind does not want conviction - indeed, its only conviction is that it refuses to believe in anything, other than the obvious benefits of material comfort.  Within that mindset, there is no room for "Credo in unum Deum."  TFP has a plan, which is several steps ahead of many, and a clear idea of the society it wishes to create.  A vision is absolutely necessary for any revolution, or any counterrevolution. 


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - Dewi - 01-27-2012

Ridiculous! Have you actually ever read the book, Someone1776, or are you just having a knee jerk reaction to something you read on Wiki??

Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira was a great Catholic and a great Thomistic philosopher, and speaking for myself, R&C-R was seminal in my conversion to Traditional Catholicism. His thought made perfect sense to me, after having studied Patristics and Thomistic theology, his thought cleared up for me the disconnect I had intimated between the modern Church and what I had studied in the seminary. R&C-R should be required 12th grade reading in every traditional Catholic home school.


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - alphonsusjr - 01-27-2012

(01-27-2012, 06:18 PM)Dewi Wrote: 1) His thought made perfect sense to me

2) R&C-R should be required 12th grade reading in every traditional Catholic home school.

1) That's my experience as I continue to read R&C-R for the first time.

2) Agreed!

Thanks for weighing in.


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - Prie dieu - 01-27-2012

I side.. with Jovan and His Majesy, King Francis.


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - Someone1776 - 01-27-2012

(01-27-2012, 06:18 PM)Dewi Wrote: Ridiculous! Have you actually ever read the book, Someone1776

I have read it three times. 


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - PerfectoOdio1099 - 01-27-2012

(01-27-2012, 06:50 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(01-27-2012, 06:18 PM)Dewi Wrote: Ridiculous! Have you actually ever read the book, Someone1776

I have read it three times. 

Then please, give us references to the problems which you assert are present.


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - mikemac - 01-27-2012

(01-26-2012, 10:17 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 10:06 PM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 10:04 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-25-2012, 02:02 PM)FishFriday Wrote:
(01-24-2012, 02:21 AM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-23-2012, 01:30 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Their America Needs Fatima sister organization won't publicly say what their view of the consecration of Russia is. 

That's right.  I have been receiving e-mail from America Needs Fatima for over a year after signing an ANF petition that was posted in this forum and they have yet to mention anything about the consecration of Russia.  Not one thing.

This is on the America Needs Fatima website and addresses the consecration question saying that any consecration after 1939 was too late. That would explain why they don't make a big deal about it.

http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/Articles/fatima-more-urgent-redo.html

Thanks FishFriday.  I understand now.  Quote from that ANF page.
Quote:In a letter to Father Gonçalves, dated May 18, 1936, the seer narrates a locution she had from Our Lord regarding the same:

The Holy Father. Pray very much for the Holy Father. He will do [the consecration to Russia], but it will be too late. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her.

Every other web site about Fatima that quotes those lines read like this; "Pray very much for the Holy Father! He will do it, but it will be late."

Another quote from that ANF page.
Quote:Like the king of France they will repent and do so, but it will be too late.

Every other web site about Fatima that quotes that line reads like this; "Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late."

Do you see the difference?  It's small, but it's huge.  This is what Our Lord Himself said to Sister Lucy.  By adding the one word "too" to Our Lord's quotes those two times America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie are distorting the entire Message of Fatima and Our Lord's words.  Shame on them.  God help them.

Why do you think Sister Lucy said to do the consecration by 1960 at the latest?  Why do you think Pope Benedict said less than two years ago that he may have to do the consecration?

The consecration of Russia still needs to happen.  The Fatima Message was not just for the salvation of Catholic souls but the whole world.  How is it going to save Russia without Russia's conversion to the Catholic Faith?  The French King was asked by Heaven to consecrate France to Our Lord's Sacred Heart.  He hadn't done it in 100 years then came the French Revolution.  If we go by the same 100 year time line then the Pope along with all the bishops have until 2017, or 2029 if you go by when Sister Lucy was told to ask the Pope for the consecration.

I have a notion to believe what Someone1776  has to say about Revolution and Counter-Revolution without even reading it.  Elitism has a tendency to encourage revolution.  It did in the French Revolution and also the Communist Russian Revolution.  We need to be careful about this in North America too, both in the States and Canada.  That is what communists wait for; unrest to spark a revolution.  Nothing will encourage unrest more than elitism.         


Wait, when did that happen?

I believe it was on his way to or possibly on his way back from Fatima in May 2009 verenaerin.  I'd have to look it up to make sure.  I have to go out right now but if someone else hasn't already posted about it I will tomorrow.  I'm sure Tim and others know about this too.

Well I've been looking for it for the last couple of hours verenaerin but haven't been able to find it.  I posted it in this forum a while ago but I'm not a paying member so I can't do a search for it.  Maybe someone that can do a search will be able to find it.  And correction, it wouldn't have been in May 2009 that he said it but May 2010 I think.

Nevertheless in May, 2010, Pope Benedict XVI  said "We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic message is complete.”
http://www.cfnews.org/b16-3rd-sec.htm


Re: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs? - verenaerin - 01-27-2012

(01-27-2012, 07:59 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 10:17 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 10:06 PM)verenaerin Wrote:
(01-26-2012, 10:04 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-25-2012, 02:02 PM)FishFriday Wrote:
(01-24-2012, 02:21 AM)mikemac Wrote:
(01-23-2012, 01:30 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Their America Needs Fatima sister organization won't publicly say what their view of the consecration of Russia is. 

That's right.  I have been receiving e-mail from America Needs Fatima for over a year after signing an ANF petition that was posted in this forum and they have yet to mention anything about the consecration of Russia.  Not one thing.

This is on the America Needs Fatima website and addresses the consecration question saying that any consecration after 1939 was too late. That would explain why they don't make a big deal about it.

http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/Articles/fatima-more-urgent-redo.html

Thanks FishFriday.  I understand now.  Quote from that ANF page.
Quote:In a letter to Father Gonçalves, dated May 18, 1936, the seer narrates a locution she had from Our Lord regarding the same:

The Holy Father. Pray very much for the Holy Father. He will do [the consecration to Russia], but it will be too late. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her.

Every other web site about Fatima that quotes those lines read like this; "Pray very much for the Holy Father! He will do it, but it will be late."

Another quote from that ANF page.
Quote:Like the king of France they will repent and do so, but it will be too late.

Every other web site about Fatima that quotes that line reads like this; "Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late."

Do you see the difference?  It's small, but it's huge.  This is what Our Lord Himself said to Sister Lucy.  By adding the one word "too" to Our Lord's quotes those two times America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie are distorting the entire Message of Fatima and Our Lord's words.  Shame on them.  God help them.

Why do you think Sister Lucy said to do the consecration by 1960 at the latest?  Why do you think Pope Benedict said less than two years ago that he may have to do the consecration?

The consecration of Russia still needs to happen.  The Fatima Message was not just for the salvation of Catholic souls but the whole world.  How is it going to save Russia without Russia's conversion to the Catholic Faith?  The French King was asked by Heaven to consecrate France to Our Lord's Sacred Heart.  He hadn't done it in 100 years then came the French Revolution.  If we go by the same 100 year time line then the Pope along with all the bishops have until 2017, or 2029 if you go by when Sister Lucy was told to ask the Pope for the consecration.

I have a notion to believe what Someone1776  has to say about Revolution and Counter-Revolution without even reading it.  Elitism has a tendency to encourage revolution.  It did in the French Revolution and also the Communist Russian Revolution.  We need to be careful about this in North America too, both in the States and Canada.  That is what communists wait for; unrest to spark a revolution.  Nothing will encourage unrest more than elitism.         


Wait, when did that happen?

I believe it was on his way to or possibly on his way back from Fatima in May 2009 verenaerin.  I'd have to look it up to make sure.  I have to go out right now but if someone else hasn't already posted about it I will tomorrow.  I'm sure Tim and others know about this too.

Well I've been looking for it for the last couple of hours verenaerin but haven't been able to find it.  I posted it in this forum a while ago but I'm not a paying member so I can't do a search for it.  Maybe someone that can do a search will be able to find it.  And correction, it wouldn't have been in May 2009 that he said it but May 2010 I think.

Nevertheless in May, 2010, Pope Benedict XVI  said "We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic message is complete.”
http://www.cfnews.org/b16-3rd-sec.htm

I remember. But I didn't think he meant doing the consecration. In fact, didn't he say that he found the whole thing hard to believe. There was a thread about this I remember commenting on.