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Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Crusading Philologist - 02-21-2012

(02-21-2012, 11:54 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-21-2012, 11:42 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: I don't know. Look at the popularity of a TV show like Law and Order: SVU. The whole thing revolves around sexual abuse.

I guess you've got a point there.  I've never seen it.  Just the idea of that show creeps me out.

Yes, I don't watch it either, but making a show based on that premise is kind of disturbing.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - wallflower - 02-22-2012

(02-21-2012, 11:35 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-21-2012, 10:44 PM)wallflower Wrote: Ugh. I don't know where this is stemming from (in other words what's going on between the posters) but I remember last time I got involved in this topic. It's a terrifyingly hidden/denied topic. Everyone knows how deeply sexually perverted our society is but somehow too many believe it stops or slows down when it comes to children. I suppose that's the comforting stance to take, it's hard to live with the truth. If it's hard to believe from stats of victims, just look at sheer numbers in the National Sex Offender Registry. http://www.familywatchdog.us/default.asp  This is only those who are caught and registered! Granted they are all types of sex offenders, not just regarding children, but it's still an awful eye-opener.

ETA: I speak of it being hidden/denied but I realize many simply aren't exposed to it and that's not a culpable "denial".

There was no denial, culpable or otherwise.  Josie listed a bunch of stats, some of which did not even pertain to sexual abuse of children.  I expressed skepticism about statistics and their misuse.  Crusader Philly questioned how high the numbers seemed.   Rather than addressing the points made, Josie went into rhetoric mode and made an "I'm leaving because people deny sexual abuse" thread.

Yes, I found it, thank you for clarifying!


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Revixit - 02-23-2012

(02-21-2012, 11:56 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote:
(02-21-2012, 11:54 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-21-2012, 11:42 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: I don't know. Look at the popularity of a TV show like Law and Order: SVU. The whole thing revolves around sexual abuse.

I guess you've got a point there.  I've never seen it.  Just the idea of that show creeps me out.

Yes, I don't watch it either, but making a show based on that premise is kind of disturbing.

i think it has redeeming value in that it has helped some (many?) victims realize that they were victimized by a pervert and talk about it years, even decades, after the abuse, rape, etc.  perverts manipulate victims so that they will think it was their fault and won't tell, but they need to tell, often need therapy.

the show can also educate parents about what really goes on in the world today and how to protect their children.

but i'm not sure that offsets the danger of its educating perverts, giving them ideas of new ways to victimize.  i don't think it's healthy for children and young adolescents to watch it, either, not to mention that there are some things i don't want to know and assume that I am not alone in feeling that way.  the gross out factor is pretty high.

SUV has had a secondary effect: the sex crimes themes from that show soon began appearing more often in L & O:CI and the original L& O.  we liked the original L & O best in its early years and we liked L & O: CI because we like Vincent D'Onofrio as an actor.  we've never really liked SVU.  a few years ago we quit subscribing to satellite and just use our tv to watch movies and tv shows (w/o commercials!) from NetFlix and DVDs we own.






Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - ggreg - 02-23-2012

(02-21-2012, 09:54 PM)Josie Wrote: Yes, I do interviews or adult survivors of sexual and other types of abuse which occurred when under age 18 by adults (or anyone 5 or more years older than they are) and that God I do not have to deal with thekids while it is going on, I am not tough enough to do that job.

I guess I will stay around a bit longer to see how things really are here. But I will tell you, a casual acceptance of (or willful blind denial of) this great evil will do nothing for the Traditional Catholic except nauseate people of good conscience.

If this was not a huge, hidden problem in our society I might be more understanding but this is a HUGE problem. Most are in deep denial about it. Happy Valley/Penn State and the recent priest scandals were just the tip of the iceberg.

I am not in denial and never was.  It does not surprise me that faithless priests and people with sexual identity problems join the Church to get their power fix.  There are actually many Traditionalists who see the problem for what it is.  Mrs Randy Engel who wrote the Rite of Sodomy is a Trad herself.  That book certainly does not hold back.

What shocks and disgusts me is that the hierarchy after allowing them into the seminaries and monasteries, then helps cover up their perversions for decades.  How could they see that as the most appropriate or just course of action or the lesser of any evils?  That blame goes ALL the way to the Popes.  Make no mistake, they KNEW and they covered it up.

If I was the Pope I'd have these perverts tortured and chopped into mincemeat if they refused to repent.  If they made a good confession I'd simply decapitate them.  But not one of them would remain alive.

And I would send any seminary admissions director, who let more that one of these perverts into his seminary, to Iran to act as chaplain to the nuclear power industry.  That would make them a little more vigilant.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Walty - 02-23-2012

Ggreg is spot on, as usual.  I don't see this as a problem in the trad community.  Trads are already going on and on about the corruption in the Church, and the sexual abuse scandal is just one more piece of evidence that the Church has gone sour, that the Lavender Mafia has infiltrated (amongst other groups), and that Satan has control of so many clerics (pedophilia going hand in hand with Satanism).

It's not trads that are afraid to admit this, but, at least in my experience, the neoCaths, who have to do intellectual somersaults in order to provide good fruit for the Second Vatican Council and the modern Church.  I wouldn't be surprised to find most folks on Catholic Answers Forum claiming that the numbers are exaggerated or that they're the same with Protestant ministers, but trads know better than that.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Spooky - 02-23-2012

I don't think the numbers are exaggerated but wasn't there a study that showed that Protestant ministers are way more likely to abuse children and even worse are teachers? I think it was called the John Jay study or similar.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Walty - 02-23-2012

(02-23-2012, 10:31 AM)Spooky Wrote: I don't think the numbers are exaggerated but wasn't there a study that showed that Protestant ministers are way more likely to abuse children and even worse are teachers? I think it was called the John Jay study or similar.

This may be the case, but it doesn't really matter.  We should expect those outside of the Church to fall into sin.  But think of the scandal, and the outright influence of Satan, for Christ's Church to be permeated with this filth.  These are men who have all seven sacraments available to them, men who act in the person of Christ, who are totally within the Barque of Peter.

We should expect this stuff from the world, we should not expect any of it from the dwelling place of Christ.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - Graham - 02-23-2012

(02-21-2012, 11:35 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-21-2012, 10:44 PM)wallflower Wrote: Ugh. I don't know where this is stemming from (in other words what's going on between the posters) but I remember last time I got involved in this topic. It's a terrifyingly hidden/denied topic. Everyone knows how deeply sexually perverted our society is but somehow too many believe it stops or slows down when it comes to children. I suppose that's the comforting stance to take, it's hard to live with the truth. If it's hard to believe from stats of victims, just look at sheer numbers in the National Sex Offender Registry. http://www.familywatchdog.us/default.asp  This is only those who are caught and registered! Granted they are all types of sex offenders, not just regarding children, but it's still an awful eye-opener.

ETA: I speak of it being hidden/denied but I realize many simply aren't exposed to it and that's not a culpable "denial".

There was no denial, culpable or otherwise.  Josie listed a bunch of stats, some of which did not even pertain to sexual abuse of children.  I expressed skepticism about statistics and their misuse.  Crusader Philly questioned how high the numbers seemed.   Rather than addressing the points made, Josie went into rhetoric mode and made an "I'm leaving because people deny sexual abuse" thread.

Yeah, Josie's behaviour so far has not been much to her credit. Pheo's summary of the events was good too. No one attempted to shift any blame or downplay the gravity of abuse. I suppose we should always try to explain ourselves as fully as we can, since terse statements can be easily misunderstood.

Josie Wrote:... will do nothing for the Traditional Catholic except nauseate people of good conscience.

I am becoming very mistrustful of this sort of claim about causing scandal, which I've been noticing more and more frequently around here. It's so openly manipulative.


Re: Forum Owner: Please delete my account - newyorkcatholic - 02-23-2012

I use a hermeneutic of distrust.

If anyone starts with a denial of the problem, don't trust them.

However if anyone provides grand statistics, I also begin with skepticism.  Especially the way media presents the problem

There have been notorious cases, completely false / fabricated / suggested by therapists and law enforcement, of ritual horrific satanic child abuse that had no correlating physical evidence and ended up being dismissed.  Don't automatically trust the medical field, or the law, or therapists.

Be skeptical, be wary, be careful, is what i say.

Anyway, Walty also makes great points.  Trads are not the ones that minimize this problem.  I know about the Rite of Sodomy and Goodbye, Good Men (though I have avoided reading them).

Frankly, I assume that most of the older, fruitier, more liberal NO priests fall into two categories: those who did horrible sexual things (abuse, or child porn) or those who knew others who did.  And these people dares to hear others' confessions and celebrate Mass while all this was going on.  It's horrific.

I don't think this applies to *all* NO priests, just most of the older, liberal ones, but I'm far from denying the problem and at the same time I am skeptical of statistics.

I also agree with Gregg.  The problem here is not that we need to acknowledge or not acknowledge this abuse.  The problem is, why hasn't the Church screamed bloody murder and publically condemned all these priests and bishops.  Why haven't we brought forth a new Inquisition to execute them?  The state should be trying to stop us from that and insisting that they have the right to due process, rather than, perversely, the Church hiding these criminals from the state.