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PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Printable Version

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Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Tim - 05-03-2012

Their theme song;



tim


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Adam Wayne - 05-03-2012




Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - mikemac - 05-03-2012

Aw the poor little "nuns".  :LOL:


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Lee Timmer - 05-03-2012

(05-02-2012, 10:00 AM)ResiduumRevertetur Wrote:
(05-02-2012, 08:25 AM)WesternWarrior Wrote: Listen closely around 7:30 minutes to the "Feminist Theologian."
I agree. This part is so important to hear, because it is one of the largest fault lines that has damaged the Church. The hammer comes at 7:50. Question is, how do you put the genie back in the bottle?

You let the old genie hippies die off.


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Nicolaus - 05-05-2012

(05-03-2012, 09:02 AM)Adam Wayne Wrote:
That was one of the episodes of The Vortex I've seen.


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - James02 - 05-05-2012

Quote: It is scandalous that she uses the Council as evidence that dogmatic teaching changed,
I think it is more scandalous that this rag CAN be used as evidence that dogmatic teaching has changed.  The converse is also true.  Hence the need to rid ourselves of this ambiguous rag.
Quote: Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
  WOW!!! Hard hitting!!!  Actually this is heresy.  It leaves out the truth.  Yes, the small people in the world who recognize that the Catholic Church is required for salvation, and refuse to enter it (that would be the Satanists), are damned.  So yes, as written, this statement is correct.  It leaves out the hippo in the bathtub.  Everyone else who is not Catholic.  What about someone who doesn't have Faith in Jesus, no matter what his actions and beliefs?  Well, the Church has settled the matter:
Quote: 9. Since, then, without faith it is impossible to please God [21] and reach the fellowship of his sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end.
and
Quote: the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith,[35] without which (faith) no man was ever justified......namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation,
and
Quote: Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation.
Two infallible dogmatic Councils and a Papal Encyclical.  Those words are clear and precise.  If the Catechism and the Council actually wanted to proclaim the Truth, instead of hand wringing, that is what it would sound like.  Instead we get.....nothing.



Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Ray M Facere - 05-07-2012

Quote:Actually this is heresy.  It leaves out the truth.  Yes, the small people in the world who recognize that the Catholic Church is required for salvation, and refuse to enter it (that would be the Satanists), are damned.  So yes, as written, this statement is correct.  It leaves out the hippo in the bathtub.  Everyone else who is not Catholic.

Which, excluding a certain level of confidence, is not a question that is all together clear, all things considered. Two particular documents may help:

1. Decree of the Holy Office issued on 8 Aug 1949 -- http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/cdffeeney.txt
Note here the teaching on implicit desire. In this decree you will also find a phrase worded almost exactly as the statement you call heresy.

2. Analysis by Fr. Brian Harrison on "implicitum votum ecclesiae" -- PART I: http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt149.html PART 2: http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt150.html
Note particularly the analysis in "Section III -- What Does it Mean to be Outside the Church" found in Part I.


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - James02 - 05-07-2012

The "Decree of the Holy Office" is a PROTOCOL letter.  You might want to look up what that means before you start basing you beliefs on it.  Beliefs that may contradict two dogmatic councils.  And being a protocol letter, it was never promulgated in the AAS. 


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - Ray M Facere - 05-07-2012

Considering the "note" is referenced in Lumen Gentium and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (#847), I'd say it has been "upgraded" by the Ordinary Magisterium. Not to mention the fact that implicitum votum ecclesiae was a teaching receiving wide consensus of theologians well before the council (and thus, according to the theological standards already part of the Ordinary Magisterium). As Fr. Harrison notes, it can be reconciled with the traditional teaching, assuming you don't give away the farm on supernatural faith being a prerequisite.


Re: PBS on the Radical Nuns. - James02 - 05-07-2012

The "Protocol Letter" is fallible and never promulgated in the AAS.  It is a protocol letter labeled Protocol 122/49 and signed by a low level official.  It is worthless compared to dogmatic councils.  Catechisms are not infallible.  The adult catechism for the USA was pulled and revised because it contained heresy.

Lumen Gentium is a document from a non-binding, fallible, pastoral council.  Therefore it is not binding, may contain error, and is not dogmatic.

Trent and Vatican I were ecumenical, dogmatic councils that are binding on the Faithful.  And they proclaim that no man can be justified or saved without Faith.

So you concede that there is a need for super-natural Faith to be saved.  Thank you for conceding that you can't be saved without Faith.  Never in the history of man have we one example of a naked savage, never catechized, proclaiming the Lord Jesus.  We do have examples of preachers being miraculously sent to non-believers.  Cornelius and the Ethiopian Eunich are recorded in scripture, and there are stories about the South West Indians in the USA.

Also Jews, Hindus, and Moslems who continue in their darkness do not have Faith.

I also note that your previous cite from the "hard hitting" catechism didn't mention the requirement for Faith, which you now concede is necessary for salvation.  Which is just agreeing with Trent and Vatican I.