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Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - Printable Version

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Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - MRose - 07-11-2012

I just recently read Christopher Ferrara and Thomas Woods' The Great Facade, and one of the most interesting and frustrating aspects of it related to the Vatican's treatment of the Chinese situation, and thus their treatment of the underground Church.

Apparently, only some unapproved Episcopal Consecrations are "schismatic acts" resulting in "excommunication."


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - SaintSebastian - 07-11-2012

MRose,

The bishop in the OP was declared excommunicated yesterday.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/world-news/detail/articolo/harbin-china-16670/

He's the third one in the last year to have been declared excommunicated. 

As an aside, consecration of bishops without approval of the Apostolic See has traditionally been considered schismatic. (cf. Pope Pius VI, Charitas 10).



Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - TraditionalistThomas - 07-12-2012

Canon law clearly outlines that the consecration of bishops without papal mandate is NOT a schismatic act, but an abuse of ecclesiastical powers. Stop your bad attempts to undermine the actions of Archbishop Lefebvre. Thankyou.


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - MRose - 07-12-2012

(07-11-2012, 02:36 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: MRose,

The bishop in the OP was declared excommunicated yesterday.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/world-news/detail/articolo/harbin-china-16670/

He's the third one in the last year to have been declared excommunicated. 

Good to know. Thank you. As an aside, do you know if there are still Commie "Catholic priests" in American seminaries, as per Messrs. Ferrara and Woods' accusations in The Great Facade?

(07-12-2012, 03:11 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: Canon law clearly outlines that the consecration of bishops without papal mandate is NOT a schismatic act, but an abuse of ecclesiastical powers. Stop your bad attempts to undermine the actions of Archbishop Lefebvre. Thankyou.

I think you are referring to SaintSebastian, right? No attempt on my part to undermine the actions of ++Lefebvre.


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - NOtard - 07-13-2012

"Can. 1382 A bishop who consecrates some one a bishop without a pontifical mandate and the person who receives the consecration from him incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See." Is in the section "USURPATION OF ECCLESIASTICAL FUNCTIONS AND DELICTS IN THEIR EXERCISE (Cann. 1378 - 1389)".

But I don't understand. If the act incurs an automatic latae sententiae excommunication, what differerence does it make whether it is a "schismatic act" or an abuse of power?

I'm not trying to be funny or rhetorical here, I actually want to know what the difference is, or rather, how the difference affects anything (other than, of course, what one calls it).


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - Phillipus Iacobus - 07-13-2012

Schism is a crime, and that which can incur automatic excommunication is also a crime.

Certain conditions have to be met for one to be officially schismatic.

Wish I could be more helpful, but I am posting from a phone.


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - TraditionalistThomas - 07-13-2012

The excommunication he received was invalid because of the crisis in the church and because his noble intentions would of absolved him from any canonical penalty even if his judgement was incorrect. The disobedience of that type is not listed under crimes against the unity of the Church in Canon law. I will link later because I am on my phone.


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - Phillipus Iacobus - 07-13-2012

He was wrong for the right reasons.


Re: Chinese government ignores Vatican warning on bishop ordination [CNA] - NOtard - 07-13-2012

We were talking about the Chinese bishops. Yes, Lefebvre was a special case.