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Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Printable Version

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Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - TS Aquinas - 07-20-2012

Eatern church sounds nice right about now...


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Revixit - 07-20-2012


(07-20-2012, 09:57 AM)Tim Wrote: I don't think I'm the only one that believes they should wait a hundred years.  It gets rid of all the political passion and allows time for clear thinking, and then if accompanied by miracles wonderful !  In my dumb opinion I think my Pope Pius XII is more worthy and he's sitting in the queue like he didn't do anything heroic except maybe save 800,000 jews from death.  Bl. John Paul II intercede and bring your friend Pope Benedict XVI to Consecrate Russia, which you admitted in life here you could not accomplish, throught Christ Our Lord. Amen.

tim

Agreed. Starting now, don't even allow a cause to be opened for fifty years after the person's death.  But, Papa Benedetto, let's get moving on beatification for Pope Pius XII, who will have been dead for fifty-four years this October. 

You and I and our age cohort will never see a better pope than Pius XII, barring a miracle at a future conclave, and I'm not sure the fishies in their twenties will ever see one as holy as Pius XII.  Or, let's face it, as Catholic.




Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - SaintSebastian - 07-21-2012

As far as I know, at best, all a canonization definitively says with infallible certainty, is that the soul is in Heaven. If you really think that John Paul II was such a bad guy, shouldn't you be relieved that he was saved? Being angry or losing one's faith because someone you didn't think was very good was saved doesn't seem very Christian to me--I'm sure many of us were praying for his salvation (whether we considered him a friend or enemy), why should we be upset that our prayers were answered?


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Tim - 07-21-2012

I have no problem if Bl.John Paul II is in heaven, but it stands what I said concerning time. It appears he is on the fast track solely because he was a geo-politician. His crazy escapades are still scandalous, like Assissi. While Pope Pius XII was Holy ! He saved 800,000 jews during WWII at the cost of possibly losing his Bishops, Priests, Nuns, Sisters and Monks. He personally shielded the Chief Rabbi Zoller and his family in the Vatican, who incidentally converted to Catholicism after the war. In my Parish our pastor was Archbishop Bernard J. Sheil. He was important and was what passed for a globe hopper in the 1950's. He would tell the priests and the sisters anecdotes from his travels. He told them and they told us, that Cardinals, Princes of the Church, would get down on two knees to receive his phone call. He was near Angelic, and I remember him and Bl. Pope John Paul II.


tim


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - maso - 07-21-2012

(07-21-2012, 08:11 AM)Tim Wrote: I have no problem if Bl.John Paul II is in heaven, but it stands what I said concerning time. It appears he is on the fast track solely because he was a geo-politician. His crazy escapades are still scandalous, like Assissi. While Pope Pius XII was Holy ! He saved 800,000 jews during WWII at the cost of possibly losing his Bishops, Priests, Nuns, Sisters and Monks. He personally shielded the Chief Rabbi Zoller and his family in the Vatican, who incidentally converted to Catholicism after the war. In my Parish our pastor was Archbishop Bernard J. Sheil. He was important and was what passed for a globe hopper in the 1950's. He would tell the priests and the sisters anecdotes from his travels. He told them and they told us, that Cardinals, Princes of the Church, would get down on two knees to receive his phone call. He was near Angelic, and I remember him and Bl. Pope John Paul II.


tim

The aim of a canonization besides declaring the concerned person is in Heavens is to provide us, the catholic faithfuls, as an undeniable example of virtue. Was the late Pope so unambiguous?
If the job of the Devil's Advocate had not been suppressed by John Paul II himself, certainly he would not have even been beatified because the DA had the power to block the canonizations and beatifications if he could bring up something controversial in the life of the candidate to holiness.
If the late Pope is ever canonized, he would have to apologize to many people whose canonization was blocked by the DA because of minor controversies in their holy life. That is a matter of justice, in my opinion.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - TraditionalistThomas - 07-21-2012

(07-21-2012, 07:54 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: As far as I know, at best, all a canonization definitively says with infallible certainty, is that the soul is in Heaven. If you really think that John Paul II was such a bad guy, shouldn't you be relieved that he was saved? Being angry or losing one's faith because someone you didn't think was very good was saved doesn't seem very Christian to me--I'm sure many of us were praying for his salvation (whether we considered him a friend or enemy), why should we be upset that our prayers were answered?

It's got absolutely nothing to do with the man's salvation. It's got everything to do with canonization, which specifically raises up the person as an example of virtue for all Catholics, making the person a model for all Catholics to follow.  That is what is entirely problematic.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Cetil - 07-21-2012

(07-21-2012, 07:54 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: As far as I know, at best, all a canonization definitively says with infallible certainty, is that the soul is in Heaven. If you really think that John Paul II was such a bad guy, shouldn't you be relieved that he was saved? Being angry or losing one's faith because someone you didn't think was very good was saved doesn't seem very Christian to me--I'm sure many of us were praying for his salvation (whether we considered him a friend or enemy), why should we be upset that our prayers were answered?

This. And new miracles are reported for John Paul and Paul VI.
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/john-paul-i-john-paul-ii-beatifications-possible-during-year-of-faith/

C.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - GottmitunsAlex - 07-21-2012

The year of Faith. How opportune. I mean, what a coincidence!



Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - SCG - 07-21-2012

The process of canonizing has a long tradition of changing. The Devil's Advocate was only around for 300 or so years. The office was invented by a Pope, it can be deleted by a Pope, and it can be brought back again. The "waiting period" has changed too. The number of miracles required has changed. And don't forget that for the first thousand or so years saints were made by public acclaim. I doubt seriously that will ever return.. My only point is that the process has changed and will continue to do so. That being said, I think waiting 50 years after a person's death is a good idea. I think the waiting period is probably most important factor in our day and age for a number of reasons.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Beardly - 07-21-2012

(07-21-2012, 09:59 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote:
(07-21-2012, 07:54 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: As far as I know, at best, all a canonization definitively says with infallible certainty, is that the soul is in Heaven. If you really think that John Paul II was such a bad guy, shouldn't you be relieved that he was saved? Being angry or losing one's faith because someone you didn't think was very good was saved doesn't seem very Christian to me--I'm sure many of us were praying for his salvation (whether we considered him a friend or enemy), why should we be upset that our prayers were answered?

It's got absolutely nothing to do with the man's salvation. It's got everything to do with canonization, which specifically raises up the person as an example of virtue for all Catholics, making the person a model for all Catholics to follow.  That is what is entirely problematic.

Canonization is the Church's proclamation that a soul is in heaven. If JPII is in fact in heaven, and the Church were to infallibly proclaim thus, then who would you be to say that the Church ought not recognize a saint, if JPII is in fact a saint?

Essentially, what I'm saying is you seem more concerned with how things look to us down here than how they actually are in heaven or purgatory or hell. If JPII is in fact in heaven, then, if the Church states as much, I see no excuse for us to complain. If he is not in fact in heaven, then the Church will not canonize him. It's rather simple.