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Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Printable Version

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Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Jamey77 - 07-24-2012

Gregg I remember an article on here referring to the confusion and ambiguity following Vatican II as being a chastisement - it was by Bob Sungenis. Bishop Sheen said before the hand of God comes down on the world it comes down on the church.

Redemptorist Father Benedict D’Orazio explains:
“When God wishes to make known His displeasure toward a disobedient people, He usually rejects the sacred gifts they have presented to Him and sometimes allows even altars and consecrated images to be taken away or destroyed.”

James02 I do agree that JPII's writings were off, when I came back into the church a couple of years back (NO at first) I brought into the great hysteria surrounding him and thought he was a great mystic, I got a couple of his books and actually struggled to understand what he was trying to convey. Once I started reading trad books it was like a fog cleared. With that particular reference (pasted again below here) I think he is referring to invincible ignorance which I think some of the good pre-conciliar popes adhered to and even eminent theologians and churchmen like Garrigou-Lagrange and Archbishop Lefebvre. Without seeing the entire context of that statement the problem with it like most of his work is a lack of balance in regard to God's justice, there are no warnings of the dire consequences of those who have been given the grace to come into the Catholic Church but reject it, there is an air of "universal salvation".

"10: The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.  For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that "this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."



Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Jamey77 - 07-24-2012

(07-23-2012, 10:54 PM)James02 Wrote: We are in the Great Apostasy.

This has strong backing by statistics and in a way has come like a thief in the night. We have all read that 3/4 of Catholics attended Mass before the NO fiasco. Now the figure is closer to 10% and even with those 10% most are out the door before the final hymn finishes and hardly any seem to visit the confessional (at least the ones I attend on Saturday mornings). If indeed it is the great General Apostasy as referred in scriptures then the Antichrist will soon be making his way to the world stage. "Let no man deceive you by any means: for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition " ((Thess 2:3). If nations are thoroughly Catholic the Antichrist wouldn't get a foot in the door so the General Apostasy must happen first.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Guardian - 07-24-2012

(07-24-2012, 12:58 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(07-23-2012, 11:15 PM)Guardian Wrote: I saw the quote from St. John Eudes earlier, thanks.

My main point is that God chastises and then provides for those who remain faithful.  And its been done throughout history.  You can't seem to get past the chastisement part. 

I was responding to your post, which responded to the point about the punishment of bad priests with the argument that "We've had 'bad priests' since the dawn of the Church."

Sure we have, but that effectively ignores the point: that God will send a whole lot of them our way as a punishment. So saying, "We've had bad priests before" doesn't respond to the point that God will allow the world to become full of them as a punishment. It only reads like: "No biggie. We've had bad ones before, so why is that so bad?"

Arguing that "God will provide" doesn't respond to the point, since no one implied that He wouldn't provide. The only point made was that a plague of bad clergy is the worst kind of plague. No one argued that there haven't been bad priests before; nor did anyone argue that God wouldn't provide. These side points miss the point.

I thought it was an important point to add to the conversation. God chastizes us by sending us lots of bad priests, but don't lose hope.  Because He also provides good priests that we can depend on to teach the truth and shepard His flock.  I could have been stating the obvious, but maybe someone else got something out of it. 

It wasn't meant as a refutation of what per_passionem_eius wrote, or what St. John Eudes said.... although you seem to have made it your mission to prove how badly I missed the mark. 


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - INPEFESS - 07-24-2012

(07-24-2012, 01:55 AM)Guardian Wrote: I thought it was an important point to add to the conversation. God chastizes us by sending us lots of bad priests, but don't lose hope.  Because He also provides good priests that we can depend on to teach the truth and shepard His flock. 


Yes, this is very important to point out. Thank you for doing so.

Quote: It wasn't meant as a refutation of what per_passionem_eius wrote, or what St. John Eudes said.... although you seem to have made it your mission to prove how badly I missed the mark. 

I misunderstood you then. In context, it appeared to be some sort of a challenge to or trivialization of the situation mentioned by St. John Eudes.

I apologize for misunderstanding you.


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - Guardian - 07-24-2012

(07-24-2012, 02:30 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(07-24-2012, 01:55 AM)Guardian Wrote: I thought it was an important point to add to the conversation. God chastizes us by sending us lots of bad priests, but don't lose hope.  Because He also provides good priests that we can depend on to teach the truth and shepard His flock. 


Yes, this is very important to point out. Thank you for doing so.

Quote: It wasn't meant as a refutation of what per_passionem_eius wrote, or what St. John Eudes said.... although you seem to have made it your mission to prove how badly I missed the mark. 

I misunderstood you then. In context, it appeared to be some sort of a challenge to or trivialization of the situation mentioned by St. John Eudes.

I apologize for misunderstanding you.

No worries, I'll try to make my point more clear in the future so we avoid misunderstandings.  Glad we could work things out.  :cheers:


Re: Healing of Colombian man could pave way for John Paul II canonization - INPEFESS - 07-24-2012

(07-24-2012, 02:54 AM)Guardian Wrote: Glad we could work things out.   :cheers:

:cheers: