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Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - Printable Version

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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - Scriptorium - 10-20-2012

(10-13-2012, 02:49 PM)TrentCath Wrote: The whole tone of this statement is contrary to the catholic faith,  the tone is set by comparing the different "ecclesial communities" and the True Church to missionaries who have different ways of doing things, it follows by saying we should be happy and not jealous at the good thats done "outside" of the Church - of course the pope gives no concrete examples and neglects to mention the fact that any such joy would be tempered by sadness that such people are more likely than not going to hell- and of course the supposed deep communion we have with these heretics and schismatics is mentioned again.

As for praying to Our Lady, its no good asking her to bless such unorthodox efforts especially when you ignored her commands to consecrate russia to her immaculate heart.

The whole tone of this statement is contrary to the Catholic Faith. Try reading a book on grace, merit, and virtue. It is difficult to love those you cannot find a good quality in.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - TrentCath - 10-20-2012

(10-20-2012, 05:35 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-13-2012, 02:49 PM)TrentCath Wrote: The whole tone of this statement is contrary to the catholic faith,  the tone is set by comparing the different "ecclesial communities" and the True Church to missionaries who have different ways of doing things, it follows by saying we should be happy and not jealous at the good thats done "outside" of the Church - of course the pope gives no concrete examples and neglects to mention the fact that any such joy would be tempered by sadness that such people are more likely than not going to hell- and of course the supposed deep communion we have with these heretics and schismatics is mentioned again.

As for praying to Our Lady, its no good asking her to bless such unorthodox efforts especially when you ignored her commands to consecrate russia to her immaculate heart.

The whole tone of this statement is contrary to the Catholic Faith. Try reading a book on grace, merit, and virtue. It is difficult to love those you cannot find a good quality in.

Rubbish, saints over the years have loved prostitutes, heretics, usaries, fornicators etc... they certainly didn't praise them or claim they were good at converting people etc.... Your position is becoming increasingly absurd, it is one thing to be charitable to others and quite another to compare heretics and their efforts at leading others into heresy with true missionary work.

That said you haven't actually addressed any of what I said just used it as a launching board for your own comments, which appear to me to be totally irrelevant.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - TrentCath - 10-20-2012

(10-05-2012, 03:24 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: Parmandur:
The world's population of Catholics held constant at 17% over the last 50 years.

So there wasn't any growth.  (Heck, there was negative growth because most of those Catholics don't actually ...  act Catholic)

:eyeroll:

Indeed how many of those priests understand what it is to be a priest? Or hold he catholic faith? The same applies to the religious. And lets not forget the slow death of many religious orders.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - James02 - 10-20-2012

Quote:  The data does support my theory that grace is being transferred to the African and the Asian, the "third world" people, and away from the "first world".
  I guess you have to have that theory to survive in your little world.  By the way, you forgot to mention the "grace" was also moving away from Latin America.

In the real world, the Catholic Church is crashing and burning.  South America is gone.  It's just a matter of time now for the Prots to pick off the survivors.  Brazil is a huge embarrassment, but that is everywhere down there.  Yeah, they have high birth rates in South America, and they'll baptize their children (less and less though) and register as Catholic, but that is it.  No Mass attendance.  Fornication is normal.  Contraception is everywhere.  Shacking up without marriage is now the norm.  But the big thing is Mass attendance.  Gone.  How about Mass attendance in Europe?  Gone.  USA?  Gone.  Without Mass attendance, you ain't a practicing Catholic.  Track that, and you'll see the fruit of Vat II and the New Evangelization.

Here's the choice a "Catholic" makes in South America.  He either quits going to Mass, or he goes to the Prot service because they put on a better show.  That's the real world.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - Scriptorium - 10-20-2012

(10-20-2012, 06:49 PM)TrentCath Wrote: Rubbish, saints over the years have loved prostitutes, heretics, usaries, fornicators etc... they certainly didn't praise them or claim they were good at converting people etc.... Your position is becoming increasingly absurd, it is one thing to be charitable to others and quite another to compare heretics and their efforts at leading others into heresy with true missionary work.

You're mixed up here. Taking the joy presupposes a good deed. If prostitutes, heretics, etc. work evil, then we don't take joy. We have compassion on them, pray for them, set a good example, and correct them if possible. If they do good, we rejoice. This is a practice to cultivate goodwill toward them and counter jealousy, envy, resentment, and similar qualities, and also counter a type of elation one gets by clinging to other people's good through a sense of personal lack (taking vicarious joy to an extreme). It is part of a program to cultivate love of neighbor in places we resist, strengthen resolve to good deeds and mental attitudes, and counter evil deeds and mental attitudes on our part.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - James02 - 10-20-2012

Quote: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren

Does that include taking joy in the "good" of the former Catholic prots in Brazil?


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - James02 - 10-20-2012

Just one country.
Quote: The evangelical population of Brazil increased by 16 million people over the 10 year period from 2000 to 2010, to 42.3 million, according to census results from the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE) published Friday.

The 2010 census results reveal that over three decades the percentage of evangelicals jumped from 6.6 percent to 22.2 percent of the overall Brazilian population, making it the fastest growing religious segment in the Latin American country.

While the evangelical population ballooned, the Catholic population has decreased over the same 10 year period. In 2000 the Catholic population represented 73.6 percent of Brazil's population, but by 2010 that percentage had decreased to under two-thirds, or 64.6 percent.
  And of course barely any of that 64.6% goes to Mass.

I guess I could dig up stats on Mass attendance for the USA, Canada, and Europe, but we all know the FACTS already.  The Church is imploding due to Vat. II and the post-concilliar Popes.



Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - Scriptorium - 10-20-2012

(10-20-2012, 07:24 PM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren

Does that include taking joy in the "good" of the former Catholic prots in Brazil?

Yes.


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - JuniorCouncilor - 10-20-2012

(10-20-2012, 07:29 PM)James02 Wrote: Just one country.
Quote: The evangelical population of Brazil increased by 16 million people over the 10 year period from 2000 to 2010, to 42.3 million, according to census results from the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE) published Friday.

The 2010 census results reveal that over three decades the percentage of evangelicals jumped from 6.6 percent to 22.2 percent of the overall Brazilian population, making it the fastest growing religious segment in the Latin American country.

While the evangelical population ballooned, the Catholic population has decreased over the same 10 year period. In 2000 the Catholic population represented 73.6 percent of Brazil's population, but by 2010 that percentage had decreased to under two-thirds, or 64.6 percent.
  And of course barely any of that 64.6% goes to Mass.

I guess I could dig up stats on Mass attendance for the USA, Canada, and Europe, but we all know the FACTS already.  The Church is imploding due to Vat. II and the post-concilliar Popes.

For the sake of completeness:  A quick search showed me 36% church attendance in Brazil-- no indication as to how that was broken down between Catholics and Protestants (who are, all the same, much less numerous than the Catholics).  For comparison, church attendance in the US was 44%-- lower than Italy's 45%.

#1, apparently, was Nigeria.  Catholics, or Muslims, I wonder?


Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - TrentCath - 10-20-2012

(10-20-2012, 07:23 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-20-2012, 06:49 PM)TrentCath Wrote: Rubbish, saints over the years have loved prostitutes, heretics, usaries, fornicators etc... they certainly didn't praise them or claim they were good at converting people etc.... Your position is becoming increasingly absurd, it is one thing to be charitable to others and quite another to compare heretics and their efforts at leading others into heresy with true missionary work.

You're mixed up here. Taking the joy presupposes a good deed. If prostitutes, heretics, etc. work evil, then we don't take joy. We have compassion on them, pray for them, set a good example, and correct them if possible. If they do good, we rejoice. This is a practice to cultivate goodwill toward them and counter jealousy, envy, resentment, and similar qualities, and also counter a type of elation one gets by clinging to other people's good through a sense of personal lack (taking vicarious joy to an extreme). It is part of a program to cultivate love of neighbor in places we resist, strengthen resolve to good deeds and mental attitudes, and counter evil deeds and mental attitudes on our part.

What are you talking about? Have you even read what the pope has written? I fail to see why we should take joy in heretics converting others to heresy or why we should compare their efforts to missionaries converting people to the one true church of Jesus Christ. Frankly I am not even seeing what your reply has to do with what the pope has said or what I have said it just seems like a random collection of words with no rhyme or reason.