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Mysteries of the Rosary - Poche - 10-26-2012

I would like to have a discussion about the mysteries of the Rosary. Some people say that the Blessed Virgin gave the Rosary to St Dominic in exactly the form that it was immediately before Pope John Paul II added the five decades. i have a question for those and any other interested people, Sister Juana Ines de la Cruz lived in the 17th century. Among other things that she wrote were meditations for the 15 mysteries of the Rosary. According to her they were 1 - When after arriving tired and in tears she (the virgin) saw take the Cross from his shoulders and also remove his clothing taking off pieces of his virginal flesh in full view of the multitude, 2 -  When the virgin saw Him nailed to the Cross 3 -  When they raised Him up on the Cross 4 -  The words that Jesus said 5 -  The gall and the vinager 6 -  When she ( the virgin) saw Him die 7 -  When she was left alone at the foot of the Cross 8 -  the piercing of His side with a lance 9 -  When he was lowered from the Cross and placed into the arms of His most holy mother 10 -  When they buried Him 11 -  When they returned to the Cenacle 12 -  What they feel those who have to die wiithout Baptism 13 -  How the Our lady feels about heresies 14 -  The reprobate Christians 15 -  how she feels about the sins of the just.       


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - SaintSebastian - 10-26-2012

I read a book on this a couple months ago.  Let's see if I can accurately regurgitate it:

The first documented mysteries to be associated with the Marian Psalter (150 aves) was in about 1275 and the mysteries were three in number: Annunciation, Nativity, Assumption.  Additional mysteries then developed--all joyously themed. These mysteries are mostly found in the modern non-sorrowful mysteries, but there were others like the adoration of the Magi or more heavenly Marian ideas, like her being given the role of Illuminatrix, or having her wishes united to Christ's and answered by Christ (ie her role as Mediatrix), or her eternal joy. 

The next development was the addition of the Pater Nosters in the 1400s.  I forget the name of the person who spread this, but he suggested meditating on the Passion of Christ on the Paters. This is when roses became more formally associated with the Marian Psalter--he said the prayers were like Roses sent to the Blessed Mother, Aves were white roses and the Paters (with Passion meditations) were red roses.  The Sorrowful meditations were pretty much identical to the Sorrowful mysteries now in most versions of the Psalter back then, but one  less popular version had more Marian-themed sorrows (similar to the seven Dolors we recognize today). The number of mysteries still varied though.  Some had more general themes, rather than specific mysteries (ie "heavenly joys of Mary"), some versions had ten total mysteries, some had sets of seven (not sure how that worked), one had ninteen (I can see how these odd ones didn't stick as long...), etc..

This was also when the Psalter began to be reduced to only 50 Aves per day in many areas. The Vita Christi Rosary spread by Dominic of Prussia (50 Aves, but with 50 mysteries on the life of Christ; although supposedly he had a 150 mystery version too) became the most popular (more on its origins below).  Interestingly enough, some condemned this as destroying the Psalter.  This is when Bl. Alan de Rupe wrote his work on the Marian Psalterin order  to return to the more authentic version as he saw it.  He supported only praying the 150 a day and refused to call it the Rosary and forbade others from calling it that too, since he saw what was called the Rosary at the time (the fifty per day) as a corruption of the Psalter.  His mysteries had three groups, they were general and not specificly listed except for the last group.  His general themes were: Incarnation, Passion, Resurrection (which included the Resurrection, Ascension, Holy Spirit's descent, Glorification of Christ, Final Judgment).  The Dominic of Prussia Vita Christi Rosary and Bl. Alan de Rupe's version were the most popular and seemed to morph into generally what we have today (witha  few changes to the mysteries here and there) as people embraced parts of each (50 Aves per day, with five set mysteries for each day). 

So, where does St. Dominic's experience fit in?  It is also around this time that St. Dominic's experience is first mentioned (or at least of where the earliest evidence of it is).  Bl. Alan says the Blessed Virgin appeared to himself and told him (Alan) to pray according to the method she said taught St. Dominic, which she said consisted of meditiating on "the life and passion" of her Son (no specifics on the mysteries are mentioned).  The reference to "life and passion" makes it sound like the Vita Christi method, but Bl. Alan on the other hand didn't seem to take it that way.  On the other hand, a prominant handbook of the same period which listed various methods (the Ulm handbook), the method listed as the "method of St. Dominic" is the a variation on the Vita Christi rather then the de Rupe method.  This book also contains a picture of the Rosary very similar to what became the more uniform version, with only the last mystery different (judgment rather than coronation).  So its tought to say what St. Dominic's method really was, other than it doesn't seem to be what we have today--it seems it's either Bl. Alan's method or the Vita Christi method.

This bring us to the 16th century.  At this time, while what we all think of as the Rosary was the most common (including the shift to the Coronation as the final mystery beginning to take hold), there was still a lot of variation into the 17th century, as Poche, your example shows. However, it was in the 17th and 18th centuries in response to the Reformation that Rome began issuing a lot of legislative documents regulating and promoting Marian devotions, etc.--which, like the liturgy, led to more uniformity. 



Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - MRose - 10-26-2012

I would think twice about taking Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz seriously. Admittedly, I do not know a ton about her, but I had to read her in an introductory liberal arts class my freshman year of college, and it was taught by a very liberal protestant crazy feminist professor who quite liked Sor Juana's work. The work I read is called La Respuesta. I think she is looked to by feminists as a precursor to feminism. I do not know if this is a legitimate interpretation of her, however.


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - SaintSebastian - 10-26-2012

Just to add, my personal opinion is that as long as you're praying the Aves and meditating on the life, passion, and glory of Christ and the Blessed Virgin, then you're doing what Our Lady wants.  Ideally, praying 150 a day to parallel the Psalter is great, but while praying only 50 per day on a weekly schedule does throw off the parallel to the Psalter**, I still think it's keeping with the general intent and spirit of the devotion. Same with if someone is moved to do even more and pray 200 a day. Again, same with what has become the most common set of mysteries, even if they are not exactly what the Blessed Virgin instructed to St. Dominic, they fulfill the spirit of the instruction.

**Even if you say you're spreading the Psalter over three days, it still leaves you with two full Psalters plus an extra 50 using the weekly schedule that is most common.  


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - Phillipus Iacobus - 10-26-2012

(10-26-2012, 01:11 PM)MRose Wrote: I would think twice about taking Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz seriously. Admittedly, I do not know a ton about her, but I had to read her in an introductory liberal arts class my freshman year of college, and it was taught by a very liberal protestant crazy feminist professor who quite liked Sor Juana's work. The work I read is called La Respuesta. I think she is looked to by feminists as a precursor to feminism. I do not know if this is a legitimate interpretation of her, however.

I don't doubt it. Feminists seem to like her, and they made a really disgusting movie on her.


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - SaintSebastian - 10-26-2012

I don't know much about this Sor Juana, but feminists also love St. Hildegard and claim her as well, even though the Scivias are permeated by the differences and complementary nature of the sexes (male active, female passive) and the proper roles of each, which goes against feminism to the core. 


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - lumine - 10-26-2012

(10-26-2012, 03:28 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 01:11 PM)MRose Wrote: I would think twice about taking Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz seriously. Admittedly, I do not know a ton about her, but I had to read her in an introductory liberal arts class my freshman year of college, and it was taught by a very liberal protestant crazy feminist professor who quite liked Sor Juana's work. The work I read is called La Respuesta. I think she is looked to by feminists as a precursor to feminism. I do not know if this is a legitimate interpretation of her, however.

I don't doubt it. Feminists seem to like her, and they made a really disgusting movie on her.


Sor Juana wanted an education.  At that time, women in Mexico were not "entitled" to an education.  She died ministering to victiims of the plague.  I highly doubt she is unorthodox.


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - Allan - 10-26-2012

Subscribing


Re: Mysteries of the Rosary - loggats - 10-26-2012

There's an excellent book out there, The Mystery of the Rosary by N. D. Mitchell. Highly recommended.