FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
Smoking pot a mortal sin - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Church (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Catholicism (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Smoking pot a mortal sin (/showthread.php?tid=58899)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 01:52 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:50 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Well I know people who do meth and heroine and pop pills for enjoyment, does that make it ok? I mean hey... if I do just a small line of cocaine, and I enjoy it... it must be ok.

Pope Leo XIII enjoyed cocaine:

[Image: popeleococaine.jpg]

(10-30-2012, 09:50 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: All the people I know who smoke weed don't go to mass. Some of them are Catholics. I have never met a practicing Catholic who smokes marijuana.

I know pot-smoking and pill-popping, Church-going (and "church"-going) people. Just saying.

Are you saying it's ok to use cocaine, then?  I don't understand.  Honest question.  Thank you for your patience.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 02:18 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: St. Hildegaard on hemp, in "Physica":

Quote: “Hemp [hauff] is warm and grows where the air is neither very hot nor very cold, just as its nature is. Its seed is sound, and it is healthy for healthy people to eat it. It is openly gentle and useful in their stomach since it somewhat takes away the mucus. It is able to be digested easily; it diminishes the bad humors and makes the good humors strong. But nevertheless, whoever is weak in the head and has a vacant mind, if that person will have eaten hemp, it easily makes the person suffer pain somewhat in his or her head. However, whoever is sound in the head and has a full mind, it does not harm. Whoever is seriously ill, it also makes that person suffer pain somewhat in the stomach. However, whoever is only moderately ill, it does not cause pain when eaten.

However, let whoever has a cold stomach cook hemp in water, squeeze out the water, wrap it in a cloth, and then place the hot cloth often over the stomach. This comforts the person and restores that place. Also, whoever has a vacant mind, if the person will have eaten hemp, it causes pain somewhat in the head; but it does not cause pain in a sound head and full brain. Also, the cloth made from the hemp heals ulcers and weeping wounds because the heat in the hemp has been tempered.”


Marijuana is a just a plant. A plant God made. It isn't a poisonous plant. Just a plant. It has effects when consumed. Its effects might be different for different people, just the way the effects of other plants work. It has medical benefits for many people. It has psychological benefits for others. Abusing it, like abusing anything, is wrong. Using it with moderation and proper motives is another matter. People need to stop freaking out about the idea of "drugs" altogether (especially when they OK the consumption of the drugs called alcohol and tobacco) and just deal with people and their problems. A person can get drunk and even kill themselves by drinking too much water. The poison's in the dose, as they say, and different people have different needs, different desires, differing levels of being "addiction-prone," different metabolisms, different ways of being affected by various substances, different stages in their lives such that something may be of benefit at the age of 20 that wouldn't be of benefit at the age of 50, and so on. Life's complex. Inside the moral law, live and let live.

So, it's a plant made by God, as opposed to a man-made plant?  Sorry, but this sounds simplistic and a bit sentimental to me.  As you know, there are poisonous plants.  Why do you think God gave those to us?  I'm really ignorant about this, so forgive me if I'm trying your patience. 

That quote by St. Hildegaard doesn't mention anything to do with a high, or did I miss it?  Do you really take her seriously as medicinal expert?  No offense to the saint, but she sounds a bit wacky to me, in your quote.  What am I missing?


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - Scriptorium - 10-31-2012

I think the point is we are seeing it just one-sided. Like cocaine must be snorted at a yuppie party. Or marijuana must be smoked at a hippie party. We're using drugs just as much as people in the past, except now they have Greek based names. Or we have our darlings, like alcohol. You've got to be dispassionate when addressing the question. The principles apply across the board, whether you snort, shoot, drink, inhale, etc. Whether the substance is white powder, green flower buds, fermented extracts of grapes, etc. They're all meant to alter your consciousness and give you a high. The question is whether it destroys your reason and does substantial harm to you and others.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 05:39 AM)Aragon Wrote: I have to say I don't think Fr. Doran has ever smoked weed before. It doesn't make you lose your reason, and its effects certainly can't be compared to alcohol. It's probably not a good idea to smoke it, and addiction to it is sinful, but I don't buy this argument.

I still think anyone who's honest will admit it does indeed effect your perception of reality, and that's why it seems to be so much fun, and why some music sounds better, and some things are funnier, and some things seem deeper.  I don't know why anyone would argue it's not mortally sinful to deliberately seek to alter your perspective of reality.  But I'm open to being convinced.

On the other hand, it makes sense to me that there are circumstances that might require using it.  I can think of several.  But I would still hope that someone who does use it, or is thinking about starting, would talk to a priest first.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 01:54 PM)anamchara Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:53 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:46 PM)anamchara Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:44 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:42 PM)anamchara Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:18 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:13 PM)anamchara Wrote: Here in Michigan, marijuana is legal with a doctor's prescription. In general, I don't trust doctors. I prefer to self-diagnose and self-medicate.

I see nothing immoral about self-medicating with marijuana. I don't see anything immoral in moderate marijuana use for any reason.

I can understand your distrust of the medical profession, but if we applied this line of thinking to other things, it would not work. For example, with cars, apart from basic operations, you would not be able to self-diagnose and self-repair your car. I'm not talking about an oil change, flat tire, or even tune up and brakes, but serious work.

Of course it would work. If you were to study cars and acquire experience, you'd become a mechanic. How do you think mechanics become mechanics?

Maybe you could even become your own pope!

That's a shoddy analogy. Anybody *can* become a mechanic. Only the Bishop of Rome is pope.

I meant your own religious authority.
As a Catholic, I know I can't be my own religious authority. I can certainly be my own mechanical authority. Your analogy remains shoddy.

When I wrote that, I honestly thought using marijuana was mortally sinful.  It makes sense if that's true.  I thought it was common knowledge among Catholics.  This is news to me.  I apologize for my ignorance and for irritating anyone.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - Scriptorium - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:37 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I still think anyone who's honest will admit it does indeed effect your perception of reality, and that's why it seems to be so much fun, and why some music sounds better, and some things are funnier, and some things seem deeper.  I don't know why anyone would argue it's not mortally sinful to deliberately seek to alter your perspective of reality.  But I'm open to being convinced.

On the other hand, it makes sense to me that there are circumstances that might require using it.  I can think of several.  But I would still hope that someone who does use it, or is thinking about starting, would talk to a priest first.

Just take a moment and think of the ways you attempt to alter your perception of reality. Off the top of my head: Tylenol.

We don't even have to look at drugs. How about prayer?


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - Atomagenesis - 10-31-2012

Exactly. I've gotten greater "highs" out of prayer than any drug. It is amazing what consolations God will give you in prayer if you are faithful and put out all distractions (although we should not be attached to these, they are gifts he freely gives) I can't even begin to imagine what infused contemplation must be like that St. Teresa speaks about in the 5th 6th and 7th mansions.

If we put as much effort into practicing recollection and mental prayer as we do on drinking, smoking, and doing drugs, the whole world would be on fire with saints.

Why are we trying to justify getting high off mind altering drugs? Prayer is much better at relieving stress.

And no I don't endorse cocaine. I indulge in tobacco sometimes, and maybe a beer or two once every few months, but that's the extent of my drug use except when I am sick.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:33 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: I think the point is we are seeing it just one-sided. Like cocaine must be snorted at a yuppie party. Or marijuana must be smoked at a hippie party. We're using drugs just as much as people in the past, except now they have Greek based names. Or we have our darlings, like alcohol. You've got to be dispassionate when addressing the question. The principles apply across the board, whether you snort, shoot, drink, inhale, etc. Whether the substance is white powder, green flower buds, fermented extracts of grapes, etc. They're all meant to alter your consciousness and give you a high. The question is whether it destroys your reason and does substantial harm to you and others.

It sounds like you're saying cocaine and alcohol are both allowed, it's only a matter of using them in moderation. 

Another serious question: how does one know when their reason is impaired, or when they're doing harm to themselves or others?  I confessed once to gluttony because I had eaten more than I needed to, and the priest said I wasn't committing gluttony unless my overeating was effecting my health.  That still sounds too liberal for me.  It sounds like as long as I fast between gorgings, which would indeed prevent a lot of health problems, I'm not being a glutton.  See what I mean?


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:41 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-31-2012, 06:37 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I still think anyone who's honest will admit it does indeed effect your perception of reality, and that's why it seems to be so much fun, and why some music sounds better, and some things are funnier, and some things seem deeper.  I don't know why anyone would argue it's not mortally sinful to deliberately seek to alter your perspective of reality.  But I'm open to being convinced.

On the other hand, it makes sense to me that there are circumstances that might require using it.  I can think of several.  But I would still hope that someone who does use it, or is thinking about starting, would talk to a priest first.

Just take a moment and think of the ways you attempt to alter your perception of reality. Off the top of my head: Tylenol.

We don't even have to look at drugs. How about prayer?

The only change I want in my perception of reality is that it correspond more perfectly with reality. 


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - Scriptorium - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:51 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: It sounds like you're saying cocaine and alcohol are both allowed, it's only a matter of using them in moderation. 

Another serious question: how does one know when their reason is impaired, or when they're doing harm to themselves or others?  I confessed once to gluttony because I had eaten more than I needed to, and the priest said I wasn't committing gluttony unless my overeating was effecting my health.  That still sounds too liberal for me.  It sounds like as long as I fast between gorgings, which would indeed prevent a lot of health problems, I'm not being a glutton.  See what I mean?

I am saying that outside an elevated status given to wine in the Scripture, all drugs are equal in being judged by comprehensive moral principles. We shouldn't judge them because our society has applauded or frowned on them of late, but because they have true benefits or problems associated with their use.

How does one know when their reason is impaired, or when they're doing harm to themselves or others?

Good question. I think this is hard to answer with a black and white answer because intoxication is gradual. I measure loss of reason with an impairment in the ability to judge appropriate morals situations and make moral judgements. A state in which the inhibitions have been lowered to allow sin to be committed. And if one knows this limit, or a breech of the limit is inherent in the use, then that is a sin itself. And we have the factor of experience. How do you know until you do it? I know I have a high tolerance, and can function quite well high as a kite. Others are more impaired. Other people have mental issues. Etc.

As for harm, we can study things like the documentary and weigh the health consequences. Also we factors in money, law, our ability to carry out duties, personal life, etc.


I confessed once to gluttony because I had eaten more than I needed to, and the priest said I wasn't committing gluttony unless my overeating was effecting my health.  That still sounds too liberal for me.  It sounds like as long as I fast between gorgings, which would indeed prevent a lot of health problems, I'm not being a glutton. See what I mean?

In my mind these kinds of sins are taking an inordinate pleasure (a lust) in creation to the neglect of the Creator and His order. Make an analogy with something that relates to you. How about clothing. There is immodesty. There is overdoing it, and being too extravagant and costly. There is wearing it to lead other to sins. Etc.

I admit, these questions are not easy.