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Smoking pot a mortal sin - Printable Version

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Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - knittycat - 10-31-2012

And, as I said, I believe that I, and others, have sufficiently made the point that MJ is no more inherently sinful than alcohol or tobacco, the only sin in it's use currently is it's legal status.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - Romish Papist - 10-31-2012

Enough with the comparisons to tobacco and booze!

I can't believe there are so many people on these forums who don't think smoking marijuana is sinful and are actually passionately defending it.  Really gives my a new impression of this place.  I'm also surprised to see so many silly 15 year old level attempted "reductio ad absurdam" arguments along the cliche lines of "then tobacco and alcohol are sins". 

References to tobacco simply prove that the 12 year old "pot defenders" here did not do the Priest the courtesy of reading and paying attention to his arguments.  The arguments revolve around the sin of willingly depriving oneself of their reason and the attributes that distinguish them from an animal.  Tobacco does not effect sobriety, so it has nothing to do with this.

Many people (myself included) drink booze with the intent to stop once they feel a little buzz, therefore they specifically do not intend to get drunk (aka deprive themselves of  reason).  The drink is still enjoyable and it cannot be said that getting drunk is the default goal with booze.  This is practical and it actually happens regularly in society.  We all know this.

I smoked pot (and other things) throughout highschool.  (medical issues aside) When a person smokes marijuana, it is to get high.  No body goes out and buys marijuana (whether it be a dimebag or a QP) and says, "lets smoke this and NOT get high".  Nobody smokes weed because they like the taste.  This is not practical and it does not ordinarily occur.  We all know this.

The theoretical fact that someone with some very strange issues is at least physically capable of spending 10 dollars on a dimebag (good for one blunt or maybe a couple joints) and lighting it, taking a few tiny puffs and then stopping before getting high, is so unlikely to manifest itself in reality that it is not worth mentioning that it could theoretically happen and not be sinful.  And nobody here who is defending it really thinks that that ever happens either. 

The point behind smoking marijuana is to get high.  End of story.  That is a purposeful deprivation of reason and therefore mortally sinful.  It just boggles my mind that there are so many immature little kids (mental age, I mean) on these forums. 


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - knittycat - 10-31-2012

Le sigh

I knew the reasoned debate and lack of name calling was too good to last.

I have, many times, made the point that, yes, you actually *can* smoke MJ for enjoyment. Many people I know *DO* smoke

(10-31-2012, 08:08 PM)Romish Papist Wrote: with the intent to stop once they feel a little buzz, therefore they specifically do not intend to get [high] 

Just because you were a teenage pot head after a high doesn't mean that everybody who smokes MJ is.

I have systematically countered the "People only smoke to get high" argument, the "But it's really addictive" argument, and the "Everybody who smokes pot is emotionally stunted argument" and you retaliate by name calling?   If we are going to sling accusations of immaturity, then I counter that, you, being unable to accept defeat in a debate and resort to calling people 12 year olds, are actually the immature one in this particular discussion.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - knittycat - 10-31-2012

And in addition,
Perhaps when you smoked pot as teenager with the express intent to get high, it was more the age than the substance. 
Every teen I know who drinks does so with the express intent to get smashed.

It's the only reason some beers exist.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - VoxClamantis - 11-01-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:23 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I think it could be said to be a result of liberalism just as easily.  Is there not an argument for cocaine and heroin use in what you say too?

There are arguments for cocaine or heroin use. Both are pain-killers. Cocaine is (or at least was) used in dentistry and rhino-type surgeries all the time and for good reason: it works. Heroin and morphine are the best opiates we have in terms of mitigating the effects of pain. They quite often radically alter the quality of lives for the better.



Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - per_passionem_eius - 11-01-2012

(11-01-2012, 03:06 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-31-2012, 06:23 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I think it could be said to be a result of liberalism just as easily.  Is there not an argument for cocaine and heroin use in what you say too?

There are arguments for cocaine or heroin use. Both are pain-killers. Cocaine is (or at least was) used in dentistry and rhino-type surgeries all the time and for good reason: it works. Heroin and morphine are the best opiates we have in terms of mitigating the effects of pain. They quite often radically alter the quality of lives for the better.

I know, Vox.  It just sounds like you're advocating its use for any kind of pain.  That's why this seems a difficult problem for me.

If marijuana is no different from alcohol as some here have said, how do you argue that it nonetheless shouldn't be used by teenagers, since wine is commonly given teenagers and even children by French and Italian families, in smaller amounts?


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - VoxClamantis - 11-01-2012

(10-31-2012, 06:24 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(10-31-2012, 01:52 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 09:50 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Well I know people who do meth and heroine and pop pills for enjoyment, does that make it ok? I mean hey... if I do just a small line of cocaine, and I enjoy it... it must be ok.

Pope Leo XIII enjoyed cocaine:

[Image: popeleococaine.jpg]

(10-30-2012, 09:50 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: All the people I know who smoke weed don't go to mass. Some of them are Catholics. I have never met a practicing Catholic who smokes marijuana.

I know pot-smoking and pill-popping, Church-going (and "church"-going) people. Just saying.

Are you saying it's ok to use cocaine, then?  I don't understand.  Honest question.  Thank you for your patience.

With that post, I wasn't saying anything other than Pope Leo XIII enjoyed cocaine. Drugs aren't "boogieman" magical substances that are "intrinsically evil." There's even a place in the world for meth, and to me, that's the "worst" drug there is as far as abuse goes. What matter, IMO, are intention, moderation, your own chemistry and metabolism and prone-ness to addiction, etc., though as a general rule of thumb, I'd tell people to stay away from coke, heroin, morphine, meth (especially meth). If, though, someone were in constant pain and used morphine, say, to ease it because it works, whether or not he got it from a doctor (and nowadays, in the U.S., the DEA has doctors afraid to treat pain adequately), I'd say power to him. Or if someone's Dad died and someone were to hand him a glass of sherry to chill out and relax, I'd say power to him. God gave us these substances. They're often abused, but aren't intrinsically evil.




Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - VoxClamantis - 11-01-2012

(10-31-2012, 08:08 PM)Romish Papist Wrote: The point behind smoking marijuana is to get high.  End of story.  That is a purposeful deprivation of reason and therefore mortally sinful.  It just boggles my mind that there are so many immature little kids (mental age, I mean) on these forums. 

But that isn't true. Often the point behind smoking marijuana is to relax, to increase appetite, to get the giggles with someone, to ease bronchial spasm, to deal with pain, etc. And it isn't mortally sinful to use alcohol or other substances for such good purposes, even to the point of a "buzz" or joviality; it's using such things to the point of destroying the use of reason that's sinful. And in my experience, alcohol is LOTS more dangerous in that regard than marijuana.



Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - knittycat - 11-01-2012

(11-01-2012, 03:12 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(11-01-2012, 03:06 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-31-2012, 06:23 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I think it could be said to be a result of liberalism just as easily.  Is there not an argument for cocaine and heroin use in what you say too?

There are arguments for cocaine or heroin use. Both are pain-killers. Cocaine is (or at least was) used in dentistry and rhino-type surgeries all the time and for good reason: it works. Heroin and morphine are the best opiates we have in terms of mitigating the effects of pain. They quite often radically alter the quality of lives for the better.

I know, Vox.  It just sounds like you're advocating its use for any kind of pain.  That's why this seems a difficult problem for me.

If marijuana is no different from alcohol as some here have said, how do you argue that it nonetheless shouldn't be used by teenagers, since wine is commonly given teenagers and even children by French and Italian families, in smaller amounts?

Wine given to teens and even children by French and Italian families, in smaller amounts.  It is monitored and dispensed by the family to ensure proper use, and to teach use in moderation no?  However, you won't see the same in regards to cigarettes for the most part.  Nobody has said that MJ is no *different from alcohol*.  It is.  Just as tobacco is different from alcohol.  We are just claiming it is no more *harmful* or *sinful* than alcohol (and often, a good deal *less* harmful when used in moderaton)

The sin in it's use is related to it's legal status, not it's morality as a substance it's self.


Re: Smoking pot a mortal sin - VoxClamantis - 11-01-2012

(11-01-2012, 03:12 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: I know, Vox.  It just sounds like you're advocating its use for any kind of pain.  That's why this seems a difficult problem for me.

If marijuana is no different from alcohol as some here have said, how do you argue that it nonetheless shouldn't be used by teenagers, since wine is commonly given teenagers and even children by French and Italian families, in smaller amounts?

Well, I haven't made that argument, but I can think of reasons why it's not a good idea for teenagers to smoke pot: teens, as teens, as a group (at least in this country, at this point in time) are stupid, don't know when to quit, have no discipline, are immature, have schoolwork to do which requires good short term memory skills that abuse of pot can interfere with, etc. Plus, the physical action of smoke on respiratory tract tissue likely isn't good for most people, in itself (pot is said to help in cases of asthma, hence the qualifiers).  It's like with drinking wine:  in Italy, kids aren't binge drinking; on American campuses, kids get stupid. We've got a messed-up culture, helicoptering, over-protective parents who don't give kids room to breathe so that the moment they have some freedom, they lose their minds, and other social phenomena going on that'd make rampant use of marijuana and other drugs among teens a bad idea.