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This is Odd - Whitey - 12-17-2012

The Caribbean ? For Lent ?

Mortification and Penance redefined I guess  ???

Re: This is Odd - Nat682 - 12-17-2012

Have you ever tried fasting on a cruise ship, with a round-the-clock buffet, several nice restaurants, plentiful food, and no real limit to what you can eat?  I'm pretty sure it's impossible.  On the other hand, maybe the point of this "retreat" is to foster that extreme penance and self-denial by trying to fast on a cruise.  Still, I don't think it's possible.  I went on a cruise for the first time in my life last summer.  I'm pretty sure I could have just rolled off the boat at the end of the cruise.

Re: This is Odd - Walty - 12-17-2012

I also found this odd, but let's not presume anything.

Re: This is Odd - arashijing - 12-17-2012

I also found this odd, mostly because I have this notion that it would be easier to fast in places that invite penance and contemplation, such as retreat houses (minus the luxury) in close proximity to churches and/or monasteries.

But, just like what Walty said, let's not presume anything.

Re: This is Odd - Et_cum_spiri220 - 12-17-2012

I was wondering about that too. Church Militant TV has "difficulties" with the Diocese of Detroit  where they reside.  They don't support Voris' work, perhaps because he's very critical of pro-homosexual clergy, modernists and heterodox bishops.  I cant read minds but its obvious they don't approve of him. They have undermined his scheduled appearances on Church property (Scranton in April 2011 as an example) causing cancellations and a need to re book  location. Detroit is home to the liberal Kathlyc group Call To Action so it's not surprising. Some background on this is here

Maybe they chose the boat as a venue to avoid political nonsense from Detroit  :scratchinghead:

Either way, Voris does good work and Fr. Z is on the boat too. I'm considering going with some friends who are planning on attending.

Edit: IMHO it's a  bad idea to call this a retreat during Lent. A get together, meeting, lecture or something similar, but a retreat on a cruise ship is odd especially considering the background of the two main people involved.

Re: This is Odd - Tim - 12-17-2012

Your observations are correct. But, he is preaching to the little catechized. How many of the modern Catholics fast or understand Lent ? EWTN had commercials explaining about not eating meat on Friday, because many do not know. I really doubt the folks that are practicng traditional Catholics of any stripe will be going there, except the Fr. Z. fanclub. In some ways Voris like Paul is preaching to the Greeks. These folks are just beginning to understand there is something way wrong. Voris will bring them up to speed, and I'll bet Fr. Z. will introduce them to the TLM. Baby steps.


Re: This is Odd - Walty - 12-17-2012

(12-17-2012, 07:23 AM)Et_cum_spiri220 Wrote: Maybe they chose the boat as a venue to avoid political nonsense from Detroit  :scratchinghead:

You may be on to something here.

Re: This is Odd - Heinrich - 12-17-2012

(12-17-2012, 01:13 PM)Walty Wrote:
(12-17-2012, 07:23 AM)Et_cum_spiri220 Wrote: Maybe they chose the boat as a venue to avoid political nonsense from Detroit  :scratchinghead:

You may be on to something here.

Then why not Clear Creek or that place in Wyoming?

Re: This is Odd - Poche - 12-18-2012

Maybe it would be a good idea to give up this cruise to the Caribean for Lent.

Re: This is Odd - Et_cum_spiri220 - 12-22-2012

Some serious hatred of Voris and this cruise over on Simcha Fishers' blog. She had a sarcastic post about this on her blog at NC Register but this one is nasty. Technically this one isn't by her but someone at her personal blog who calls himself "The Jerk".  In the comments over there and at NCR  there are people who had never heard of him but now are pretty sure that he is a  :censored: and traditionalists are Jew haters.

They accuse him of hating Jews and post his video from a few years ago where he talks about OT vs Rabinical Judaism as evidence (she can read minds now?) and imply that he's a closeted gay, which is way off IMHO. I saw him at a conference in NY state where he briefly discussed the years he was away from the Church and his libertine behavior. If he's got even 1 ounce of SSA he does the best job of hiding it I've ever seen, not that I care about his personal life at all, it's just that these people brought it up.

So now the "church of nice" is fine with the Al Smith dinner having two pro-aborts as honored guests but if you publicly point out the irony and express your disapproval, watch out.

I'm not a "Voris follower" per se, but I do like the work he does including calling out the Marxists and homosexualists in the US episcopacy. I wish some priests I heard in my youth had talked about the same subject matter instead of those modernist pablum sermons. I wish I had been taught with the Baltimore Catechism instead of the heretical ad-hoc liberal hippy catechism.

I could go on a long rant about this nastiness and calumny but I'll stop.

Quote:Which One’s Gilligan?
December 7, 2012 by The Jerk
Hi, I’m The Jerk.

Normally I review movies around here when I feel like it, but today I’d like to offer some commentary on the tackiest Catholic enterprise since they set up that Stepford village in Naples Florida. The Michael Voris Love Boat.

Don’t forget the retreat part.
How could I? Americas favorite crusader against secretly gay bishops who only happen to be revealed as secretly gay when they disagree with Voris (can someone say closet case?) is planning a fun Caribbean cruise for all of his super-fans. Just Like RuPaul.

Copy Cat!
Oh, and Fr. Z will be tarnishing his reputation by being a featured guest on this cruise. Fun!

Fr. Z gotta eat.
Seriously padre, Voris? This clown with the trump l’oeil is going to charge the suckers who watch him thousands of dollars for a “retreat” at sea. During Lent. That’s right. Thousand of dollars spent to go on a spiritual retreat on a cruise ship with casinos and all night buffets. For Lent.

Why didn’t Jesus think of something like this! The whole Easter thing would be way more fun if Lent was like one long Mardi Gras instead of this boring penance crap.

If only it were the Agony on the Lido Deck and then maybe the Mass would still be in Latin.
You know what’s going to happen? Through some scheduling mix-up they put the Voris boat on the same ship as the next RuPaul cruise.

If we’re lucky!
At that point it’s gonna play out like The Poseidon Adventure, with Voris leading a rag tag group of Traddies and Trannies through to safety.

Just better not be any Jews on the ship.
Til next time, Keep it classy.

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Posted in Uncategorized | 46 Comments
46 Responses
on December 7, 2012 at 11:40 AMSimcha Fisher
I keep trying to say, “I can’t believe Michael Voris would do something like this!” But . . . I can. Can we stage an intervention for Fr. Z? What the heck??

on December 7, 2012 at 11:58 AMpriestswife
Heaven help any priest who gets some celebrity status…and who doesn’t have the day to day ‘drudgery’ of either pastoring a parish or living in monastic community.

Fr Z- a cruise with a Catholic focus is fine- but call it that, not a retreat- and don’t go during Lent.

I think it is time for Fr Z to have a long case of the flu

on December 7, 2012 at 11:59 AMCarolyn
I am in on the intervention for Fr. Z, what the heck is right!

on December 7, 2012 at 12:02 PMtroll 2
traddies and trannies, oh my. the sheer number of cappae magnae that will be worn on this cruise boggles the mind. i assume i’ll see you both there?

on December 7, 2012 at 12:04 PMEllen Minnick Thomas
Maybe Fr.Z feels a pastoral responsibility to Voris?

on December 7, 2012 at 12:27 PMterry nelson
This is way funnier than my post on the story. LOL! Which one is Gilligan?

on December 7, 2012 at 1:04 PMTim in Cleveland
I went to the link and, from what I read, the cruise seems like a fabulous idea to me. If I had the money, I’d sign up in a heart beat.

I think I’ll pass on the Michael Voris cruise though.

on December 7, 2012 at 2:18 PMLady Harriet
It’s probably better for my sanity that I’ve never heard of Voris, but this does sound wacky.

P.S. We love you down here in Ave Maria, Simcha, even if you do make jokes at our expense!

on December 7, 2012 at 2:26 PMAnn
Check out the video starting at the 3:30 mark (HT to the crescat). Just be ready to pee in your pants when you do.

on December 10, 2012 at 8:48 PMKate
Oh my goodness! Doesn’t he have video editing? I just got around to watching that, and not only does he say ‘money’ instead of many – very revealing – but he also closes by saying, “we’ll update you as things regress” which is the point where I really cracked up. Did none of his people catch that??

on December 7, 2012 at 2:28 PMAnn
Oops here is the video!

on December 7, 2012 at 2:29 PMAnn
Ugh, sorry here is the video. 3:30 mark

on December 7, 2012 at 10:07 PMenness
Sigmund Freud is RIGL (that’s rolling in grave laughing).

on December 7, 2012 at 2:32 PMAnn
@terrynelson Your post today on the Immaculate Conception was hilarious. I would tell you that on your own blog but you have that combox on lockdown lol.

on December 7, 2012 at 4:18 PMenness
Can’t somebody introduce that man to a hairbrush??

on December 7, 2012 at 7:21 PMTim in Cleveland
He combs his hair with a sword like a real man (and Real Catholic).

on December 7, 2012 at 4:29 PMHill popps
This comment doesn’t have to do with your post, which I love by the way. Anyway, I just discovered sock puppet theater. It’s people’s rants, and comments to posts acted out by sock puppets! All I could think of was how hilarious it would be with your pants post. Just google sock puppet theatre. Slightly naughty but so funny!

on December 7, 2012 at 11:09 PMThe Jerk
Oh crap. I totally forgot to make a joke about the risk of Legionnaires’ disease on cruise ships.

on December 8, 2012 at 9:27 AMbob cratchit
cute. honestly, who gives a farthing about Voris? I barely know who he is and I’d venture to say the same for most Catholics.

on December 8, 2012 at 3:10 PMAnna
Well, if Dignaroos made for odd sidebar ads, I shudder to think what I’m in for now that I clicked on that RuPaul link.

on December 9, 2012 at 12:51 PMSunday Smorgasbord
[...] ***Winner must fly to Ave Maria to collect said chicken dinner, which leaves out Simcha and the Jerk. [...]

on December 10, 2012 at 8:04 AMThe Retreat Police | Acts Of The Apostasy
[...] Bon voyage! [...]

on December 12, 2012 at 7:39 PMNina from NFP
Personally, I think the RuPaul cruise would be WAY more…. MORE. I mean if it’s going to be a drag anyway, it might as well be a *real* DRAG.

on December 13, 2012 at 4:01 PMAgellius
Jews… ??

on December 13, 2012 at 4:31 PMThe Jerk

on December 15, 2012 at 4:47 PMAgellius
I still don’t get it.

on December 16, 2012 at 12:52 AMThe Jerk
Not my problem.

on December 16, 2012 at 1:47 AMAgellius
Oh, I’m sorry. I thought that in posting the video in response to my comment, you were trying to help me to understand your point.

Are you saying that the video implies that he hates Jews or something? His thesis is that rabbinical Judaism is not the same as Old Testament Judaism. It is it your position that to disassociate rabbinical Judaism from Old Testament Judaism (in terms of religion, not biological descent), and to say that the Catholic faith is the true successor to the Old Covenant, is hateful to Jews?

The guy may hate Jews, for all I know. I just don’t see any justification for that conclusion from this video alone.

on December 16, 2012 at 8:43 AMThe Jerk
Go back to pretending to be smart on your own blog. I simply do not care enough about what you think to go any further with this.

on December 17, 2012 at 2:30 PMAgellius
Your level of indifference is impressive. I’m flattered that you’ve gone to the trouble of attaining to such a monumental degree of uncaringness towards me personally. (Though you apparently couldn’t resist looking at my blog.) But, you still shouldn’t slander people.

P.S. I’ll stop pretending to be smart if you’ll stop pretending to be a jerk.

on December 17, 2012 at 2:43 PMThe Jerk
Nope, I’ve neverpretended to bea jerk. This is 100% genuine.

on December 17, 2012 at 5:38 PMBill K.
Other than attending daily Mass and attending religious lectures, no one knows what each individual will do on a RETREAT CRUISE at any time of the year.
Perhaps God will give the grace to bring other Souls back to the Faith on this cruise.
Please read: Mt 7:1-5 – Jesus’s instruction to each of us.
We are to judge SIN, not any individuals.

CCC: ” 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.”

CCC: ” 791 The body’s unity does not do away with the diversity of its members: In the building up of Christ’s Body there is engaged a diversity of members and functions. There is only one Spirit who, according to his own richness and the needs of the ministries, gives his different gifts for the welfare of the Church.
The unity of the Mystical Body produces and stimulates charity among the faithful: From this it follows that if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with him, and if one member is honored, all the members together rejoice.
Finally, the unity of the Mystical Body triumphs over all human divisions: “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

on December 19, 2012 at 9:12 AMellen
Simcha and “The Jerk”, please read what “Bill K” says in the above post. I find your post very disturbing. God bless.

on December 19, 2012 at 2:52 PMMore Poisonous Fruit from the Cult of Voris
[...] Simcha Fisher, being a healthy human being, notes her distaste with Michael Voris offering a Caribbean Lenten Luxury Cruise for a thousand bucks a head (all while trying to portray the whole thing as some valiant act of [...]

on December 20, 2012 at 2:17 AMKarl Keating
I hold no brief for Michael Voris, but as an organizer of Catholic cruises (Mark has been a speaker–and a very good one!–for us) I should point out that the $1,084 Voris is charging works out to $155 per day. That includes the equivalent of hotels, all meals, and car expenses for a driving vacation that visits five far-flung cities in a week. You easily could spend more than that trying to do such a land-only vacation, so in that sense Voris’s cruise shouldn’t be labeled a luxury or expensive trip.

I thought the critique at Simcha Fisher’s blog was very poorly done–so poorly that it never should have been posted.

The reviewer starts by referring to “the Michael Voris Love Boat.” That migth be acceptable if Voris were sponsoring a cruise for singles looking for spouses, but that isn’t at all what his video or ad say. A cheap shot.

The reviewer says that Voris “is going to charge the suckers who watch him thousands of dollars for a ‘retreat’ at sea. During Lent. That’s right. Thousands of dollars spent to go on a spiritual retreat on a cruise ship with casinos and all night buffets.”

First of all, using “suckers” is another cheap shot.

Second, the fee isn’t “thousands of dollars” but just over one thousand dollars. (Can’t you read the man’s ad?)

Third, nearly all Catholic cruises, no matter what time of year, are held on big ships that have casinos. Big ships mean lower costs per person, and big ships universally have casinos. (On Catholic Answers cruises we just ignore the casinos and go about our own business.)

Fourth, “all night buffets”? I checked the description of this cruise at the Princess Cruises website and couldn’t find any reference to all-night buffets. Catholic Answers has used several cruise lines over the years (but not Princess), and none of them had an all-night buffet.

Granted, Lent doesn’t seem the best time of year to set a cruise (maybe Voris chose March because the rates are low then), but–unlike something claimed in the comments above–his group won’t be partying on the ship on Good Friday–because Good Friday is on March 29, and his cruise ends 12 days earlier! Still another cheap shot.

I don’t object to criticizing Voris when criticism is due (which is often enough, I’m afraid), but let’s play fair, shall we? Don’t make things up, and don’t exaggerate. Cheap shots (which are mainly plain old falsehoods) don’t bring any credit to their authors.

on December 20, 2012 at 9:30 AMSimcha Fisher
Oh, Karl Keating! What’s a guy like you doing in a place like this? The Jerk is still sleeping off last night’s Night Train bender, but maybe until he’s more alert, I can respond.

I think you are misunderstanding The Jerk’s role on my blog. People don’t read The Jerk to get the facts; they read The Jerk to see in print what everyone’s secretly thinking in their heart of hearts, after going on a Night Train bender.

The Jerk and I both saw the Michael Voris cruise, and thought, “Ugh, who wants to be stuck on a boat with Michael Voris?” But then we saw that it was being advertized as a Lenten retreat, and that’s when we realized it was time for The Jerk to respond.

Catholics on cruises? A-ok with me, not that anyone needs my permission. Catholics throw the best parties. While cruises don’t appeal to me personally, I don’t go after Catholics who live the high life, on land or on sea. Drinking and having fun while pursuing intellectual and spiritual growth are utterly Catholic, and there’s not really anything more to say about that.


Making it during Lent, and calling it a “retreat” — that’s indefensible, and laughable.

Voris’ lackeys are the same ones (literally the same people — I checked their emails!) who, trained in the school of Voris, fell all over themselves condemning Cardinal Dolan (literally condemning. They said that he was going to Hell, and that I was, too, for defending him) for living it up at the Al Smith dinner. They just couldn’t believe that a PROMINENT CATHOLIC would be eating FANCY, EXPENSIVE FOOD during this SOLEMN SEASON (by which they meant “right before the election”).

The Jerk wasn’t going after Voris for hosting a cruise. He was going after him for his ludicrous, tin-eared hypocrisy. There’s no exaggeration there. Here is a guy who makes his living training people to sniff out sin in their fellow Catholics, and he pulls some spectacularly inappropriate nonsense like this — and his hordes of internet assassins has got everyone so terrified that they don’t even dare to speak the name “Voris” for fear of being overtaken by the mob. It’s just disgusting, and I firmly believe that The Jerk has done a service here by reminding people not to be afraid of this dope.

on December 20, 2012 at 1:22 PMSuzanna
This is a great clarification. I completely agree with the last paragraph.

on December 20, 2012 at 10:21 AMNatalie
I’ve never heard of a cruise being billed as a retreat. Maybe I live under a rock? All the retreats I’ve ever been on involved sleeping in a retreat house or convent on a lumpy mattress with a roommate who snores. And meals that would make college cafeteria food look gourmet. Clearly I have been going on the wrong kind of retreats all my life! 

As a side note I hadn’t ever heard of Voris, so thanks for that. (I think?)

on December 20, 2012 at 10:26 AMNatalie
Also, how does one attend Mass on a Cruise ship? Do they make a stop on land? Or do they set up something in a ballroom or something?

on December 20, 2012 at 1:31 PMNaomi Kietzke Young
Natalie, I know that one! A priest who is attending the cruise uses one of the public rooms. I actually met my Sunday obligation on my Alaska cruise (not during Lent) in that way.

on December 20, 2012 at 11:57 PMalex
Wow. I did not know that you hate Voris so much. Sad, really sad. I read your blog at NCR regularly and thought you were funny and intelligent. I must assume that you think you have reasons for being so outrageously cruel on this site, but as a relatively new Catholic I must say that I am scandalized. I read Bill K’s post and thought, “I knew there had to be a Catechism reference for this!” I have often wondered what the big deal was in talking publicly about another person’s actual faults-detraction- especially when I find myself veering off into very true descriptive comments about all the horrible things my ex (whom I did not want a separation from) has done while talking to some total stranger in line at the grocery store…but I am beginning to understand it now after reading this series of posts. Are you and The Jerk the same person? Am I being naive? Any way I sincerely beg you to look at how your style of public lashing out might be damaging your soul…and I am not trying to blast you. I wonder if anyone has studied how these public forums affect how we think and interact. There seems to be something that lends itself to the negative when we are not actually talking one on one and in private…God Bless you and I hope you can forgive Michael Voris from your heart and please go to him in person (now am I really being naive?)

on December 21, 2012 at 12:16 AMThe Jerk
Danny Boy, I deleted your link. Look, I pray one day you’ll have an original thought and become a better writer, until then, maybe keep this stuff to yourself.

Alexi, Simcha is not The Jerk, and The Jerk is not Simcha. Since you failed that test, I don’t have to care about what you think.

on December 21, 2012 at 12:22 AMalex
um, ok

on December 21, 2012 at 4:12 AMBob
I have to say in reading this and the comments, I feel a sense of shame that Catholics are involved with anything on this page. Just another reason for Blessed Mary to weep.
God bless us all.

on December 21, 2012 at 9:23 AMThe Jerk
Bob, I’m so tired of drips like you. I’m closing these comments.

on December 21, 2012 at 2:30 PMI Am Simcha Fisher
[...] new non-controversy is over this post, mocking the idea of a Lenten cruise being sponsored by Michael Voris. The problem wasn’t so [...]

Comments are closed.