FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Church (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Catholicism (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? (/showthread.php?tid=60097)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Mithrandylan - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 02:59 PM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 02:25 PM)ggreg Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

Not really the same thing as having Asperges syndrome is it?

But since you are obviously a little unhinged I would certainly pray for you.
   

Lanza knew exactly what he was doing.  Before the crime, he cleared his hard drive of any incriminating evidence.

If anything, that would support him either being nuts, or having help.

The dude killed himself.  No need to rid oneself of incriminating evidence if that's the plan.  It's not like he was going to try to escape.




Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - jacobhalo - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.
  mentally Ill?  He knew what he was doing.  Before he committed the crimes, he erased everything from his hard drive that could be incriminating. 


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Allan - 12-18-2012

Eye-roll

1. We are commanded to forgive.  If we don't forgive, we will not be forgiven.  Tough deal, but...it is what it is.
2. No need to wish someone in hell.  If he deserves to be there, he is.  God's call, and His judgement is perfect.  Yours doesnt matter.
3. It is a spiritual work of mercy to pray for the dead.  So do it.
4. Asperger's is not a mental illness.  It is a disorder on the Autism Spectrum, usually very high functioning.  "Aspies" are not sick.    


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Hanno - 12-18-2012

Jacob, I beg you to quit now and get off the thread.  I realize this a very emotional topic, but you've already made a despicable comment about rape that you haven't yet apologized for, so I think you're just going to dig yourself deeper if you continue.

You are making a theological error in thinking that going to hell depends upon the magnitude of one's sins.  That's not the case.  Going to hell is based on impenitence for one's sins.  That people will commit sins is a given.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - ggreg - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 03:03 PM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.
  mentally Ill?  He knew what he was doing.  Before he committed the crimes, he erased everything from his hard drive that could be incriminating. 

Which only goes to show how insane or irrational he was.  The cops would clearly not lack evidence to convict him since the school had CCTV and he was using guns registered to his own mother, so ballistics would match.  Plus he killed himself anyway, so whatever his plan of escape was it was not very rational or well thought out.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - OldMan - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 10:12 AM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 09:14 AM)ggreg Wrote: He was mentally ill with Aspergers so yes, why not?

He might not have been fully culpable for his actions.

Hitler or Stalin or Mao as far as we know we're not suffering from Autism.

I suffer from lack of nookey.  Then I should not be culpable if I rape someone. 

You play right into the hands of protestants who mistakenly believe that a condemned man should not be allowed in heaven even if he repents. Conversely, protestants mistakenly believe that a person who usually leads a good life and then commits a mortal sin and dies should not be condemned.

The events of last Friday were horrendous and shook me to the very core of my being. But you, whoever you are, are not the Judge of the living and the dead. You would do well to shut your yap.




Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - ggreg - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 03:00 PM)jacobhalo Wrote:
(12-17-2012, 11:11 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: Our religion is replete with teachings to love and pray for our enemies. And there is no reason to exempt the dead.

Mt 5:44 Wrote:But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.

Rm 12:14 Wrote:Bless those who persecute [you], bless and do not curse them.

I Pt 3:9 Wrote:Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.


When a tree doesn't produce, cut it down.

Gonna have to be a lot of cutting down in that case.  The human population is going to look like the Brazilian rainforest.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - StMichael929 - 12-18-2012

In the past didn't the Church refuse the funeral rites and burial in a Christian cemetery for those who committed suicide?  When did this start to change?

" Both these things—justice and grace—must be seen in their correct inner relationship. Grace does not cancel out justice. It does not make wrong into right. It is not a sponge which wipes everything away, so that whatever someone has done on earth ends up being of equal value. Dostoevsky, for example, was right to protest against this kind of Heaven and this kind of grace in his novel The Brothers Karamazov. Evildoers, in the end, do not sit at table at the eternal banquet beside their victims without distinction, as though nothing had happened"

~ Spe Salvi


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - jacobhalo - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 03:10 PM)Hanno Wrote: Jacob, I beg you to quit now and get off the thread.  I realize this a very emotional topic, but you've already made a despicable comment about rape that you haven't yet apologized for, so I think you're just going to dig yourself deeper if you continue.

You are making a theological error in thinking that going to hell depends upon the magnitude of one's sins.  That's not the case.  Going to hell is based on impenitence for one's sins.  That people will commit sins is a given.

I apologize for the rape remark.  Yes, I am very outraged, especially about the Catholic church not ever mentioning the devil or hell.  I've heard the clergy say that God gives us unconditional love.  No he doesn't.  There are conditions for his love.  If he love was unconditional, then there would not be a hell.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - HailGilbert - 12-18-2012

Okay, my two cents on this issue.

As far as those who take the ultimate step and attempt suicide, yes, they should be prayed for. That also applies to the families of suicide victims. I speak on this from personal experience.

Back in 1980, I attempted to hang myself 5 times with a belt. Part of it had to do with emotional and verbal abuse from my Dad, who has 3 of the 4 mental illnesses I still have, as well as being picked on by bullies from kindergarten to Catholic high school. My parents sent me to the mental ward of a then existing general hospital in my hometown. This December is the 32nd anniversary on my entering that ward.

The feelings of wanting to kill myself are still there. They ebb and flow like the tide on the beach, but they're still there. Even more since my professional diagnosis of these illnesses over the last four years. Reading about those who committed suicide in the news makes my heart go out to them and their families and the pain they go through, along with the anger against God they feel.

Murder-suicides, on the other hand, make it almost impossible to pray for. Those who commit such acts, taking the innocent or repentant with them into the grave, is just too much to think of. The biggest example of this is the Jim Jones cult in Guyana, Jones joining his victims into Eternity after he got them to end it all.

Jesus has commanded us to pray for all souls. He has given us no wiggle room at all on this matter. That means although everything in me say "don't do this", Jesus says we must. Okay, then, as You wish, Lord Jesus.

Thank you all for your time and patience with my opinion.