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Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Printable Version

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Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - SMKMI - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 06:25 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 06:20 PM)SMKMI Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 06:12 PM)Hanno Wrote:
(12-18-2012, 05:58 PM)SMKMI Wrote: He's dead. That means he is either in: 1) heaven 2) purgatory 3) hell.

If 1, praying for his soul is pointless, as he has the beatific vision and he will be responding to prayers with his own. If 2, it will help him get to heaven quicker and he will pray for those kind souls in the Church Militant who prayed for him. If 3, irrevocably pointless.

I see nothing to indicate he is in the state of 1 or 2, unless he had a moment of perfect contrition before committing suicide... think about that.

Praying for any suicide would generally suppose that the person repented in their last instant of life.  It's unlikely, but not impossible.  People who lose a loved one to suicide can hold out such a hope.  But that's not the only reason a suicide might be in purgatory.  Their culpability could be lessened by things like mental illness or prescription drugs.

You might see nothing to indicate the shooter is purgatory, but none of us are God so we just can't know.

Even if a soul is in hell, are our prayers for them "irrevocably pointless"?  Given that we can't know who's in hell outside of Judas, why would the Church exhort us to pray for the dead if we might be wasting our time?

They are pointless insofar as the repose of someone's soul. hell = not getting out, ever. Kinda like praying for Satan to once again be the highest angel-- it's not happening.

Except that Satan is divinely revealed to be in Hell.  Lanza isn't.

It seems to me a far stretch to entertain the idea of Adam Lanza being in purgatory or heaven while try-real-hard Protestant, Jew or Muslim is most damnable.

Outside of Mercy for the kid being mentally defective, what on earth points us to the likelihood of Adam Lanza's soul being not in hell?

I don't HOPE he is, I am just looking at this from the perspective of doctrine. More points to him being in hell than not.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Mithrandylan - 12-18-2012

I agree.  I was objecting to your use of the word "pointless" and comparing it to praying for Satan.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - SMKMI - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 07:57 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I agree.  I was objecting to your use of the word "pointless" and comparing it to praying for Satan.

Our Lady will distribute the graces merited, but *if* the dude is in hell... it's pointless specifically to/for him. Apologies for not specifying. Read my mind, dang it.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - JacafamalaRedux - 12-18-2012

It must be a very optimistic thing to pray for Lanza, although I don't wish him to hell. But no, its better odds than winning the Powerball 10 x's if he's in purgatory.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Hanno - 12-18-2012

Are we supposed to do a statistical analysis every time we pray for someone deceased?


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - JacafamalaRedux - 12-18-2012

I'm no mathematician, believe me, Hanno. Your faith is better than mine, perhaps. God bless you.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Hanno - 12-18-2012

(12-18-2012, 09:20 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: I'm no mathematician, believe me, Hanno. Your faith is better than mine, perhaps. God bless you.

Believe me, I haven't prayed for this Adam Lanza kid.  But ultimately I think we can.  And even if he's in hell, I don't think the prayer will be wasted.  I regularly pray for people who were close to me and are now deceased, and that includes people who might not have made the cut.  But I figure it isn't my place to judge.  One of them was an active homosexual who was raised Catholic but was hostile to God and his Church.  He would rant and rave.  Even though he hated God, it was clear that God nevertheless occupied a place in his mind.  He just couldn't shake God.  I hope he made the right choice at the end.  I hope I do, too.  The way I see it is, we should pray for the dead, because we just don't know.  God bless you, too.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Scriptorium - 12-18-2012

It's easy. "Let us pray for all the deceased in the Newtown shooting." Boom. There's your intention. You don't have to go on all day. Just include him in with your Rosary intention one time. My priest did it relatively the same. "Let us knell and pray for all the people who died in the Connecticut shooting, especially for the Catholics." And then you pray the typical prayers. It doesn't have to be complicated.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - jake-the-rake - 12-19-2012

Religiously speaking, praying is the ONLY thing one CAN do for Adam Lanza. Everything else, sorta feels like revenge or peeing on his grave.


Re: Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT? - Allan - 12-19-2012

(12-19-2012, 01:50 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: Religiously speaking, praying is the ONLY thing one CAN do for Adam Lanza. Everything else, sorta feels like revenge or peeing on his grave.

False dichotomy.  Think "both, and" not "either, or".