FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums
JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Printable Version

+- FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Church (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Catholicism (https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects (/showthread.php?tid=61400)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Poche - 02-17-2013

The Kennedies were misled by dissident theologians. They were not the only ones. Mario Cuomo cast the deciding vote that made abortion legal in New Your. I have long said that these polititians who emphasize their "Catholic" status and vote for abortion are a huge scandal


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - jovan66102 - 02-17-2013

Burdensome, since the Popes and the Vatican are guiltless, according to you, of all that has happened in the Church in the USA since the 60s, I'm just curious? Are the Kennedys also responsible for the lack of catechesis, plunging Mass attendance, falling conversion rate, etc., etc., in countries such as Canada, Britain, France, Germany and pretty much the entire developed Western world?

***ETA***Question coming from one who opposed JFK in '60 as a boy and has despised most of the family every since. :)


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Burdensome1 - 02-17-2013

Quote:Burdensome, since the Popes and the Vatican are guiltless, according to you

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.  Way to play internet. 


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Burdensome1 - 02-17-2013

Quote:The Kennedies were misled by dissident theologians.

Yeah.  Sort of the point of the article I linked to. 

I think everyone knows that discipline in the Church has been lax (to say the least) over the last half-century and more, but I was interested to note that Curran was having a real deleterious effect on American Catholicism as early as '64.  It took 23 more years to get him out his faculty position, after a failed attempt in '67.  I always thought of him as dissenting on birth control, I never knew he was an early player in abortion politics.


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Burdensome1 - 02-18-2013

Quote:Burdensome, since the Popes and the Vatican are guiltless, according to you, of all that has happened in the Church in the USA since the 60s, I'm just curious? Are the Kennedys also responsible for the lack of catechesis, plunging Mass attendance, falling conversion rate, etc., etc., in countries such as Canada, Britain, France, Germany and pretty much the entire developed Western world?

Your question is still silly and indicates that you don't read others' posts very carefully.  I specifically said, to an American (as far as I know) that the Kennedys had more affect on his daily life as a Catholic than JPII. 

When pressed on this, I noted that JPII called no council and promulgated no missal. 

I didn't say "...than Paul VI".  You need to read more carefully.

Now, my personal opinion is that nearly everything is Paul VI's fault.  I am not overly upset about the canonization of JPII, but I am really concerned about any irregularities in the investigation of Paul.  I personally consider the Novus Ordo to be the biggest mistake in the last several hundred years, at least.  Also, I find it really frustrating that the typical traditional Catholic thinks that the council wrote a missal.  A missal was promulgated during the council, in 1965.  I was basically the TLM with vernacular readings.  What occurred under Bugnini and Pope Paul was not specified by the council.  While obviously the NO would not have been possible without the atmosphere created by the crazy council, the council was not the efficient cause of the NO.  In fact, that gives me an idea for a thread.


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - DustinsDad - 02-18-2013

(02-18-2013, 01:57 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote:
Quote:Burdensome, since the Popes and the Vatican are guiltless, according to you, of all that has happened in the Church in the USA since the 60s, I'm just curious? Are the Kennedys also responsible for the lack of catechesis, plunging Mass attendance, falling conversion rate, etc., etc., in countries such as Canada, Britain, France, Germany and pretty much the entire developed Western world?

Your question is still silly and indicates that you don't read others' posts very carefully.  I specifically said, to an American (as far as I know) that the Kennedys had more affect on his daily life as a Catholic than JPII. 

When pressed on this, I noted that JPII called no council and promulgated no missal. 

I didn't say "...than Paul VI".  You need to read more carefully.

Now, my personal opinion is that nearly everything is Paul VI's fault.  I am not overly upset about the canonization of JPII, but I am really concerned about any irregularities in the investigation of Paul.  I personally consider the Novus Ordo to be the biggest mistake in the last several hundred years, at least.  Also, I find it really frustrating that the typical traditional Catholic thinks that the council wrote a missal.  A missal was promulgated during the council, in 1965.  I was basically the TLM with vernacular readings.  What occurred under Bugnini and Pope Paul was not specified by the council.  While obviously the NO would not have been possible without the atmosphere created by the crazy council, the council was not the efficient cause of the NO.  In fact, that gives me an idea for a thread.

All the pro-abort ''catholic'' politicians that went (and continue) to go unpunished and oftentimes, even honored by the hierarchy gave the example to Catholics that the church wasn't serious about these issues. Ultimately the buck stops at the pope. For 25 years, the buck then stopped at JP2 whether you like it or not. Just as the buck now stops with B16.

Also, the continued ecumenical insanity that rules the church (such as the Assissi events just as the most obvious) demonstrate to the common folk in the pew that that dogma is ever changing, that nothing is fixed and immutable. If the Church can give up its teaching that it is the One True Church, then everything is up for grabs, including its moral teachings on abortion, contraception and what not. Actions speak louder than words and that was what JP2 communicated.

And think about it...if JP2 can ignore Mortalliun Animos, why can't the little guy in the pew ignore Humane Vite?

Dark times we live in.

DD


Re: JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects - Burdensome1 - 02-18-2013

As far as I can tell, JPII was just continuing Paul VI's program.  I don't give the servant the same credit or blame I do the master.