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Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Printable Version

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Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Grasshopper - 06-17-2013

I knew you weren't serious, Tim, but I couldn't resist -- especially since I have German ancestry (as well as Dutch and Polish). I had to put in a plug for my peeps.      :LOL:


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - OldMan - 06-17-2013

(06-17-2013, 03:08 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote:
(06-17-2013, 03:01 PM)OldMan Wrote: Tell me what happened in 1517 that called for such an exodus from the Catholic Church, the Church founded by our Lord Himself? There was no reason, none whatsoever. Luther was a vile human being.

The sins on both sides means that the leaving was a sin as well--it wasn't justified, but it seems it was provoked by the sins of clergy according to St. Vincent de Paul (which is why he originally founded the Congregation of the Mission for the reform of priests; their focus shifted to the poor due to the sharp increase in destitute due to the religious wars):

St. Vincent de Paul Wrote:"Ah! Gentleman, and my brethren, how earnestly should we pray to God for that spirit, and make some effort to meet the needs of the Church, which is being ruined in many places by the evil conduct of her priests, for it is they who are ruining and destroying her; and it is only too true that the depravity of the ecclesiastical state is the chief cause of the ruin of God's Church...So it is we priests, then, yes, we priests who are the cause of the scourge which is ravaging the Church, of the deplorable losses she is suffering in so many places; for she has been almost entirely ruined in Asia and Africa, and in a great number of places in Europe, such as Sweden, Denmark, England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland, and the United Provinces, as well as in a great part of Germany. And how many heretics may we not see in France! And now look at Poland, which, already deeply infected with heresy, is at this very moment in danger of being entirely lost to our holy religion by the invasion of the King of Sweden! Does it not seem, Gentlemen, as if God intends to transfer His Church to other lands? Yes, if we do not change, it is to be feared that God may remove her entirely from our midst."

Conference 141

All clergy are sinners, we are all sinners. Luther didn't leave the Church because of the sins of the clergy per se. Crap he was just as guilty... I'm not sure that you are taking St. Vincent de Paul's quote in the right context. Anyway this endless mea culpa business is getting us nowhere. What's next a pope kissing the Koran to show our respect for Muslims? Oh yeah, that's been done...


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - LiberaNosIesu - 06-18-2013

Maritain (in his Three Reformers) suggests that Luther defected not because of corruption in the Church but because of the burden of free will and his despair over concupiscence.
Also, I like the approach of Don Felix Sarda y Salvana, in Liberalism is a Sin, who demonstrates that the Deformation and its principle of the private interpretation of Holy Scripture (as well as justification without works) is the gateway to the whole modern edifice in which every man is the arbiter of his own truth. Luther and his rebellion is one of the greatest scourges ever to be unleashed upon the world.


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Nicolaus - 06-18-2013

(06-17-2013, 02:48 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:
(06-17-2013, 02:07 PM)Tim Wrote: ...no one can tell me anymore there is anything good which has ever come out of Germany.

Nothing religious, maybe, but other than that:

Bach
Beethoven
Einstein
Euler
Gauss
Goethe
Riemann
Wagner
etc.

I would say those people did some things that I would consider "good"...

...and if I were still into cars, I wouldn't mind having a BMW or a Porsche or a Mercedes-Benz.
What about beer and brats?


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - VoxClamantis - 06-18-2013


And in other news, the victims of John Wayne Gacy gather to celebrate the clown's birthday.

Whatever.

Anyway, I'm glad to be Eye-talian-American, and wouldn't want to be as ruled by the clock as Germans, but Germany gave the world some seriously great people. Top on my list is BEETHOVEN. Sigh. And there's Bach at a close second...




Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Armor of Light - 06-18-2013

(06-18-2013, 11:34 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: And in other news, the victims of John Wayne Gacy gather to celebrate the clown's birthday.

Whatever.

Anyway, I'm glad to be Eye-talian-American, and wouldn't want to be as ruled by the clock as Germans, but Germany gave the world some seriously great people. Top on my list is BEETHOVEN. Sigh. And there's Bach at a close second...

I worked for a German company for years, and worked over there every year for a few weeks at a time. They came over here all the time, too. I only met one asshole German that whole time. Good people...very friendly...helpful....polite...clean. The only drawback that I noticed is their reliance on "professionals" to do simple jobs that we Americans do for ourselves. We think on our feet better by far. Great food, too! I don't drink anymore, but that beer sure looked good.

Werner VonBraun ended up being pretty good, dontcha think?


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - jonbhorton - 06-18-2013

A genius he was, a prophet he wasn't...

“Upon surrendering with his rocket team to the Americans in 1945: "We knew that we had created a new means of warfare, and the question as to what nation, to what victorious nation we were willing to entrust this brainchild of ours was a moral decision more than anything else. We wanted to see the world spared another conflict such as Germany had just been through, and we felt that only by surrendering such a weapon to people who are guided by the Bible could such an assurance to the world be best secured.”


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Parmandur - 06-18-2013

(06-18-2013, 11:34 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: And in other news, the victims of John Wayne Gacy gather to celebrate the clown's birthday.

Whatever.

Anyway, I'm glad to be Eye-talian-American, and wouldn't want to be as ruled by the clock as Germans, but Germany gave the world some seriously great people. Top on my list is BEETHOVEN. Sigh. And there's Bach at a close second...

And Bach was...A LUTHERAN.  :O


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - DiesIrae - 06-18-2013

I'm late to the party but,

We should be celebrating with the satanists - at least they believe in the Real Presence!


Re: Catholics and lutherans jointly mark reformation anniversary. YAY!! - Philosoraptor - 06-18-2013

So do Lutherans :P

Well, sorta  :LOL: