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Did the Virgin Mary die? - ArturoOrtiz - 08-13-2013

here is another fascinating article by Taylor Marshall and is pretty interesting to learn about

Did the Virgin Mary die?

There are many Catholics that deny that the Immaculate Mary died. They claim that when Pope Pius XII dogmatically declared the Assumption of Mary, he left the question open. They cite the following from Munificentissimus Deus:


by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.

[Image: Grudziądz_Polyptych-Dormition_of_Mary-1024x613.jpg]

Here, it is claimed, that the Holy Father left the question open by declaring only “having completed the course of her earthly life,” and not “having died.” Did Mary die? They say the text is ambiguous.

However, what did Pope Pius XII intend when he wrote, ”having completed the course of her earthly life”? As in the study of Sacred Scripture, the answer lies in context.

Pope Pius XII – Did Mary Die?

If you read Munificentissimus Deus, it becomes manifest that the Holy Father taught that our Immaculate Lady died an earthly death before being assumed bodily into Heaven. This belief is stated repeatedly in the text of Munificentissimus Deus. Here are some examples from Munificentissimus Deus:

Citing Pope Adrian I, His Holiness Pope Pius XII records:


Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself.”

Citing the Byzantine liturgy:


As he kept you a virgin in childbirth, thus he has kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb.”

Citing Saint Modestus, the Holy Father writes:


As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.”

The citations employed by Pope Pius XII reveal that he believed and intended to show that the Immaculate Virgin Mary did in fact undergo death prior to her glorious Assumption.

What is death?

Death is the separation of the body from the soul. When the soul leaves the body, you are dead. Traditional iconography shows the soul of Mary separate from her body as in the Western version above and in the Byzantine version below:

[Image: Dormition-.jpg]

The common feature of the Dormition icon is Christ holding the tiny soul of Mary depicted as a baby wrapped in white clothes. It’s a “reverse Madonna.” The Mother of God’s body lies lifeless on a bier. The orthodox image shows that Mary did die. The Holy Apostles surround her demonstrating that the Dormition and Assumption had apostolic witness and are part of the deposit of Faith.

But Mary didn’t sin!

It should be stated that Mary did not die because of sin, but rather in her desire to be conformed to Christ in all things – to be the speculum justitiae, mirror of justice. Her death gave her dominion over Purgatory as prophesied in Ecclesiasticus 24 and gave her more meritorious prayers for those in the hour of death.

If you would like a detailed defense of the death of the Immaculate Virgin, see the Glories of Mary by Saint Alphonsus Ligouri, a doctor of the Church.

Assumption Triduum

The Eastern Churches celebrate a mini-Lent before the Assumption from August 1-14. In addition to fasting, the Eastern Christians chant the Paraklesis Canon to the Mother of God from August 1-13. There is a tradition is that she died at 3pm on August 13 and rose again and was assumed into Heaven on August 15. Her death on August 13 is still commemorated in Jerusalem to this day. Hence Aug 13-15 is a Marian Triduum or “three-day” death and resurrection cycle. In fact, the Jerusalem rite for Matins on August 14 are those of Holy Saturday. In Jerusalem, the liturgy of her death begins on the evening of August 12.




Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - meadjodha - 08-14-2013

Of course she did.  Our Queen and Mother wanted to be in all things like her Son.  She could have been translated like Enoch or Elijah but insteed experienced death (separation of body and soul).  She is the first ressurected, i.e., the first to receive her Glorified body after death.  Jesus came personally for her, first at the time of her death to receive her soul and again on the third day after her death to ressurect her body and join it with her soul in Heaven.


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - SCG - 08-14-2013

I believe so. She is the first fruit of the resurrection, after Jesus. Her body is glorified. We don't know if Enoch and Elijah have glorified resurrected bodies. There are prophecies and pious beliefs that those two will have to return to earth and be killed. Also, those who are alive at the Second Coming will be "changed." That doesn't mean they won't die. They might die on the spot (seeing the Lord coming in awful glory in the clouds) and then, in the twinkling of an eye, have a resurrected body.


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - 2Vermont - 08-14-2013

Yes, she died, but her body was assumed rather than see corruption.

See

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-xii_apc_19501101_munificentissimus-deus_en.html

Ooops....I guess that is what this whole OP is about.  I guess I should read the OP first, huh?

Given that it is clear what the Church teaches in this document, I'm not sure why there is even a question.


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - Unum Sint - 08-14-2013

Put me in the column of those that DO NOT believe she suffered death.

It may be assuming too much, however I put my self in the shoes of Our Lord and ask my self if I a sinner who had authority to spare my own mother, also a sinner, death would do so without blinking. Then what more could the savior He to whom all authority has been given would do for his sinless mother?

My money is on, The Lord would not let death touch His mother.


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - jovan66102 - 08-15-2013

While I personally believe She died before the Assumption, I do not think that the question is closed, despite the argument in the OP. I base my personal opinion on Her death on the very quotes in the Bull, but by the fact that His Holiness phrased the Definition as he did, not simply saying 'having died' or even 'having completed the course of her earthly life and died', he left the question open.


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - 2Vermont - 08-15-2013

This debate is not that big of a deal to me (we've got much bigger fish to fry these days...lol), but this here seems to be rather clear to me:

Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself.”


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - meadjodha - 08-15-2013

This still is a mystery but I believe she did not experience pain upon her death as we do.  Because our Mother was sinless I believe she simply passed with the closing of her eyes into the arms of her Son, our God.  Pain upon childbirth and death is our lot as sinners and children of Adam.  Her body was resurrected before Thomas arrived after three days.  Note that our Mother has a glorified body and is still recognized as a woman.  So much for the theory that our resurrected bodies will be androgynous.



Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - Zedta - 08-15-2013

I found this very interesting article on the subject this morning and thought it most apropos to the subject:


:comp:




Did German Mystic Really 'See' Death Of Virgin And Her Assumption Into Heaven?

http://www.spiritdaily.com/emmerichmarylife1.htm#Emmerichsee

By Michael H. Brown

emmerichassumption

Story 3

In addition to her revelations on the Passion, on the ancestry of Mary, and on the Virgin's home in Turkey -- which led investigators to the location -- German mystic Anne Catherine Emmerich also recorded alleged insights into the death and Assumption of the Blessed Mother.

We must point out that her revelations were "meditations" from which may be gleaned a general tenor of an event and certain details, but that as such they are far from historical truths -- a fact that Emmerich herself acknowledged. Nonetheless, her stunning accuracy in describing the house in Ephesus where Mary reputedly lived out her final days [see previous story] warrants a further look at other parts of her revelation, outlined in the book, The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary -- especially the way in which history's holiest woman died.

It was on August 13, 1822, that Emmerich -- who will soon be beatified -- said she had experienced a great vision of the Virgin's death the night before. That death, of which so little is known, occurred, maintained Emmerich, 14 years after the Crucifixion and after Mary had lived on Mount Zion, in Bethany, and finally for nine years just outside of Ephesus -- where she was also assumed into Heaven, according to Emmerich (whose revelations on Mary's house have been accepted by the Vatican).

"I suspect that the news of her death, burial place, and Assumption into Heaven was permitted by God to be indefinite and only a matter of tradition in order that Christianity in its early days should not be in danger of heathen influences then so powerful," said the mystic in pondering why there is so little actually known about Mary's death. "The Blessed Virgin might easily have been adored as a goddess."

Instead, Mary manifested as a force that led to the construction of Christ-centered altars, temples, and churches across Europe and Asia Minor after her death, which Emmerich describes in tremendous, almost mind-boggling detail.

How much is fact? How much is sheer meditation?

On the Blessed Mother's death: "I saw her lying on a low, very narrow couch in her sleeping alcove all hung with white, in the room behind and to the right of the hearth place," said Emmerich -- whose revelation on the hearth was confirmed when excavators found burnt residue at the site. "Her head rested on a round cushion. She was very weak and pale, and seemed as though completely consumed with yearning. Her head and whole figure were wrapped in a long cloth; she was covered by a brown woolen blanket. I saw several women, I think five, going into her room one after the other, and coming out again as though they were saying farewell to her."

Present also, claimed Emmerich, were the Apostles, who had been summoned from all parts of the region by means both natural and supernatural. Peter, Andrew, John, Thaddaeus, Batholomew, and Mathias were the first to arrive, "standing in prayer together on the right-hand side of the front part of the house."

Others, summoned by visions, arrived in the following days, holding prayer services and representations of what we now call the Mass, alleged Emmerich. In her last days, Mary -- who may have been 64 years of age -- was fed spoonfuls of liquid from a bowl. Intriguingly, she is said to have had a Cross on her couch that was shaped like the letter "Y" -- as Emmerich always envisioned the Cross.

Was 48 A.D. actually the year of Mary's death?

There is always controversy over such dates. Other mystics -- including at least one canonized saint -- have given different years for the Virgin's death, and if Mary was 18 at the time Jesus was born -- an age discerned from her reported age at death -- it appears to conflict with an earlier revelation in Emmerich's diaries that seemed to put Mary's age upon marriage at 14. "The matter is also confused by the historical problems of the date of the birth of Christ and the date of the Crucifixion and Ascension, and cannot be decided with any certainty," warned one of her editors.

But remarkable is the fact that Emmerich was shown numbers in Roman numerals -- which she was not familiar with. Equally remarkable is the vivid nature of her revelations, which reportedly have influenced an upcoming Mel Gibson movie and are so lucid one feels like an eyewitness to earth-shaking events.

Plausible? Implausible?

What was the Virgin's death actually like?

"Her maidservant was in the utmost distress, throwing herself on her knees and praying with outstretched arms, sometimes in corners of the house and sometimes outside in front of it," asserted the German stigmatic -- who experienced her vision from a sickbed to which she was confined for 12 years. "The Blessed Virgin lay still and as though near death in her little cell. She was completely enveloped in a white sleeping coverlet, even her arms being wrapped in it. In the last days of her life I never saw her take any nourishment except now and then a spoonful of juice which her maidservant pressed from a bunch of yellow berries like grapes into a bowl near her couch.

"Towards evening the Blessed Virgin realized that her end was approaching and therefore signified her desire, in accordance with Jesus' Will, to bless and say farewell to the Apostles, disciples, and women who were present. Her sleeping cell was opened on all sides, and she sat upright on her couch, shining white as if suffused with light. The Blessed Virgin, after praying, blessed each one by laying her hands on their foreheads.

When the time came, said Venerable Emmerich, after a drawn-out process, "the Blessed Virgin lay back on her pillows pale and still. Her gaze directed intently upwards; she said no word to anyone and seemed in a state of perpetual ecstasy. She was radiant with longing; I could feel this longing, which was bearing her upwards -- ah, my heart was longing to ascend with hers to God!" Once more the Apostles stood around her bed, praying after celebration of the Eucharist. When the actual moment arrived, said Emmerich, Mary's eyes "were raised towards Heaven in holy joy. Then I saw a wonderfully moving vision. The ceiling of Our Lady's room disappeared, the lamp hung in the open air, and I saw through the sky into the heavenly Jerusalem. Two radiant clouds of light sank down, out of which appeared the faces of many angels. Between these clouds a path of light poured down upon Mary, and I saw a shining mountain leading up from her into the heavenly Jerusalem.

The Blessed Mother then "stretched out her arms towards it in infinite longing," said Emmerich, "and I saw her body, all wrapped up, rise so high above her couch that one could see right under it. I saw her soul leave her body like a little figure of infinitely pure light, souring with outstretched arms up the shining mountain to Heaven.

"The two angel choirs in the clouds met beneath her soul and separated it from her holy body, which in the moment of separation sank back on the couch with arms crossed on the breast.

"My gaze followed her soul and saw it enter the heavenly Jerusalem by that shining path and go up to the Throne of the Most Holy Trinity."

There were many souls to greet her, said Emmerich, and the Virgin's light was transcendent. She was buried in a tomb near the Ephesus house, a burial spot which Emmerich claimed was camouflaged by a spring the Apostles diverted toward the entrance.

Soon after came the Assumption, which the Church officially recognized in 1950.

"Those who were on their way home saw from the distance a strange radiance over Mary's tomb," stated Emmerich, in describing this event. "It was as if a shaft of light descended from Heaven towards the tomb, and in this shaft was a lovely form like the soul of the Blessed Virgin, accompanied by the form of Our Lord.

"Then the body of Our Lady, united to the shining soul, rose shining out of the grave and soared to Heaven with the figure of Our Lord."

[Resources: The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary, The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ]

Also, this link with a gathering of some extrascriptural documents:  http://www.fam-faerch.dk/pseudigrapher/Index.html


Re: Did the Virgin Mary die? - Zedta - 08-15-2013

Then, just after posting the above, I get this email which is quite interesting as well:


VATICAN.VA: APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION OF POPE PIUS XII MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS DEFINING THE DOGMA OF THE ASSUMPTION (November 1, 1950): http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-xii_apc_19501101_munificentissimus-deus_en.html



EXCERPT: The Queen of Heaven in the Kingdom of the Divine Will: http://www.divinewill.org/Mary%20Most%20Holy%20-%20The%20Virgin%20Mary%20in%20the%20Kingdom%20of%20the%20Divine%20Will.htm
Transit from Earth to Heaven.  Happy Entrance. 
Heaven and Earth celebrate the New Comer.

The soul to her Glorious Queen:

My dear Celestial Mama, I am back again in your maternal arms, and in looking at You, I see that a sweet smile arises on your most pure lips.  Today your attitude is all festive; it seems to me that You want to narrate to me and confide to your child something that will surprise me even more.  Holy Mama, O please! I pray You, with your maternal hands, touch my mind, empty my heart, that I may comprehend your holy teachings and put them into practice.

Lesson of the Queen of Heaven:

Dearest child, today your Mama is in feast, because I want to speak to you of my departure from earth to Heaven, on the day in which I completed fulfilling the Divine Will on earth.  In fact, there was not one breath, or heartbeat, or step in Me, in which the Divine Fiat did not have Its complete act; and this embellished Me, enriched Me, sanctified Me so much, that even the Angels remained enraptured.

Now, you must know that before departing for the Celestial Fatherland, I returned again to Jerusalem with my beloved John.  It was the last time that I went past the earth in mortal flesh, and the whole Creation, as though realizing it, prostrated Itself around Me.  Even the fish of the sea that I crossed, unto the tiniest little bird, wanted to be blessed by their Queen; and I blessed them all, and gave them my last good-bye.  So I arrived in Jerusalem, and withdrawing into an apartment where John brought Me, I enclosed Myself in it never to go out again.

Now, blessed child, you must know that I began to feel within Me such a martyrdom of love, united to ardent yearnings to reach my Son in Heaven, as to feel consumed - to the point of feeling infirm with love; and I had intense deliriums and swoonings, all of love.  In fact, I did not know illness or any slight indisposition; in my nature, conceived without sin and lived completely of Divine Will, the seed of natural evils was missing.  If pains courted Me so much, they were all in the supernatural order, and these pains were triumphs and honors for your Celestial Mama, and gave Me the field so that my Maternity would not be sterile, but conqueror of many children.  Do you see then, dear child, what it means to live of Divine Will?  It means to lose the seed of natural evils, which produce, not honors and triumphs, but weaknesses, miseries and defeats.

Therefore, dearest child, listen to the last word of your Mama who is about to leave for Heaven.  I would not depart content if I did not leave my child safe.  Before departing, I want to make my testament to you, leaving you as dowry that same Divine Will which your Mama possesses, and which engraced Me so much, to the point of making of Me the Mother of the Word, Lady and Queen of the Heart of Jesus, and Mother and Queen of all.

Listen, dear child, this is the last day of the month consecrated to Me.  I have spoken to you with great love of that which the Divine Will operated in Me, of the great good It can do, and of what it means to let oneself be dominated by It.  I have also spoken to you of the grave evils of the human will.  But do you think that it was only to make you a simple narration?  No, no; when your Mama speaks, She wants to give.  In the ardor of my love, in each word I spoke to you, I bound your soul to the Divine Fiat, and I prepared for you the dowry in which you might live rich, happy, and endowed with divine strength.

Now that I am about to leave, accept my testament; may your soul be the paper on which I write the attestation of the dowry that I give to you, with the gold pen of the Divine Will, and with the ink of the ardent love that consumes Me.  Blessed child, assure Me that you will not do your will, ever again.  Place your hand on my maternal Heart, and promise Me that you will enclose your will in my Heart, so that, not feeling it, you will not have any occasion to do it, and I will bring it with Me to Heaven, as triumph and victory of my child.

O please! dear child, listen to the last word of your Mama, dying of pure love; receive my last blessing as seal of the life of the Divine Will that I leave in you, which will form your heaven, your sun, your sea of love and of grace.  In these last moments, your Celestial Mama wants to drown you with love, and pour Her own self out into you, provided that I obtain my intent of hearing your last word – that you will content yourself with dying, and will make any sacrifice, rather than give one act of life to your will.  Say it to me, my child - say it to me.

The soul:

Holy Mama, in the ardor of my sorrow, I say it to You crying:  if You see that I am about to do one act alone of my will, make me die; come Yourself to take my soul into your arms, and take me up there; and from the heart, I promise, I swear, never - never to do my will.

The Queen of Love:

Blessed child, how content I am.  I could not decide to narrate to you my departure for Heaven if I did not leave my child safe on earth, endowed with Divine Will.  But know that from Heaven I will not leave you - I will not leave you orphan; I will guide you in everything, and from your smallest need, up to the greatest – call Me, and immediately I will come to you to act as your Mama.

Now, dear child, listen to Me.  I was already infirm with love.  The Divine Fiat, in order to console the Apostles, and also Myself, allowed almost in a prodigious way that all the Apostles, except one, would surround Me like a crown at the moment I was about to depart for Heaven.  All felt a blow to their hearts, and cried bitterly.  I consoled them all; I entrusted to them, in a special way, the nascent Holy Church, and I imparted my maternal blessing to all, leaving in their hearts, by virtue of it, the paternity of love toward souls.  My dear Son did nothing but come and go from Heaven; He could no longer be without His Mama.  And as I gave my last breath of pure love in the endlessness of the Divine Will, my Son received Me in His arms and took Me to Heaven, in the midst of the angelic choirs that sang praise to their Queen.  I can say that Heaven emptied Itself to come to meet Me.  All celebrated for Me, and in looking at Me, remained enraptured and said in chorus:  “Who is She, who comes from the exile, all cleaving to Her Lord - all beautiful, all holy, with the scepter of Queen?  Her greatness is such that the Heavens have lowered themselves to receive Her.  No other creature has entered these celestial regions so adorned and striking - so powerful as to hold supremacy over everything.”

Now, my child, do you want to know who She is - for whom the whole of Heaven sings praise and remains enraptured?  I am She who never did Her own will.  The Divine Will abounded so much with Me as to extend heavens more beautiful, suns more refulgent, seas of beauty, of love, of sanctity, such that I could give light to all, love and sanctity to all, and enclose everything and everyone within my heaven.  It was the work of the Divine Will operating in Me that had accomplished such a great prodigy; I was the only creature entering Heaven, who had done the Divine Will on earth as It is done in Heaven, and who had formed Its Kingdom in my soul.  Now, in looking at Me, the whole Celestial Court was amazed, because as they looked at Me, they found me heaven; and returning to look at Me, they found me sun; and unable to remove their gaze from Me, looking at Me more deeply, they saw Me sea, and found in Me also the most clear earth of my humanity, with the most beautiful flowerings.  And, enraptured, they exclaimed:  “How beautiful She is!  She has everything centralized within Herself - She lacks nothing.  Among all the works of Her Creator, She is the only complete work of the whole Creation.”

Now, blessed child, you must know that this was the first feast made in Heaven for the Divine Will, which had worked so many prodigies in Its creature.  So, at my entrance into Heaven, the whole Celestial Court celebrated that which, beautiful and great, the Divine Fiat can operate in the creature.  Since then, these feasts have never been repeated, and this is why your Mama loves so much that the Divine Will reign in souls in an absolute way:  to give It the field in order to let It repeat Its great prodigies and Its marvelous feasts.