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Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Printable Version

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Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - mlwalker1972 - 10-09-2013

I haven't seen anything on Shea's 'Catholic and Enjoying It' page. And he has made several posts today. Maybe something will turn up on Church Militant TV's site.

I hope Voris did a great job on presenting Traditional Catholicism, and on the crisis taking place in the Church.

One note on bishops - Shea does attack some, such as Archbishop Myers, who used to be our bishop here in the Peoria diocese.

-Martin



Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Chestertonian - 10-09-2013

I'm always a bit leery of a lot of the Voris/Shea/EWTN personalities and other "professional lay Catholics" with their fancy dinner conferences and Lenten cruises.  I don't know.  At times, I've appreciated what Voris has to say but in general I think he is preaching to the choir.  I wouldn't say, share his "vortexes" with any of my secular, non-Catholic friends and expect them to not throw things at me.  Mark Shea comes across as more approachable as an evangelist, and I remember reading some of his books while I was in the process of converting, but I had to stop reading his blog because it made me too angry.

Overall I think it's sad that we have these face offs between lay professional evangelists.  It's bad enough that there are already 30,000 protestant denominations.  What appealed to me the most, when I was considering converting to Catholicism, was being part of a Mystical Body of Catholics united by the sacraments and our vicar of Christ as a visible symbol of that unity.


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Tim - 10-09-2013

Chester, once again you see the whole picture clearer. It's a real shame these guys need to do this.

tim


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Scotus - 10-09-2013

(10-08-2013, 03:21 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: I want Voris to kick his ass.

Is that okay?   :Hmm:

Indeed, it is highly meritorious.

Seriously, I hope it was constructive and that, by argument, Mark Shea has been relieved of the terrible pressure of having to pretend that all is well in the conciliar Church.


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - FaithandLove - 10-09-2013

Is it really wrong to preach to the choir? Like they don't need sanctification or more relevant to the CMTV Apostolate, don't need to be wise as serpents. We should be innocent, not naive. A lot of faithful peasant Catholics, as Voris calls them are wondering "what is going on?!!" and the FE website has helped me learn historically what has happened and what is happening and St. Michael's media has given similar help in a visual time efficient way that a young mom like me can fit into her day between homeschooling, while I fold laundry or wash dishes. Conversations with L. Verrecchio are excellent for lay people to understand the Crisis in the context of the council and the CIA/FBI do a good job of uncovering the vast evil at work in society in a relatively short amount of time. I'm glad celibates like Michael are collaborating with others with time and skills to help get the info to lay people like myself who are too busy with daily sanctification and duties that go along with home and hearth.


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Sant Anselmo - 10-09-2013

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013/10/would-this-were-end-of-lay-apostolic.html

An interesting account of the event. 


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Chestertonian - 10-09-2013

(10-09-2013, 11:26 AM)FaithandLove Wrote: Is it really wrong to preach to the choir? Like they don't need sanctification or more relevant to the CMTV Apostolate, don't need to be wise as serpents. We should be innocent, not naive. A lot of faithful peasant Catholics, as Voris calls them are wondering "what is going on?!!" and the FE website has helped me learn historically what has happened and what is happening and St. Michael's media has given similar help in a visual time efficient way that a young mom like me can fit into her day between homeschooling, while I fold laundry or wash dishes. Conversations with L. Verrecchio are excellent for lay people to understand the Crisis in the context of the council and the CIA/FBI do a good job of uncovering the vast evil at work in society in a relatively short amount of time. I'm glad celibates like Michael are collaborating with others with time and skills to help get the info to lay people like myself who are too busy with daily sanctification and duties that go along with home and hearth.

I don't think it's *necessarily* wrong to preach to the choir and I can see how listening to Voris helps you be informed when you don't have much free time to devote to that task.  However, Voris is using a very public medium to preach to the faithful.  Anyone can see what he is saying via YouTube so even though his addresses seem to only be appropriate for practicing trad Catholics, any ignoramus can watch them and reinforce their already negative views of the Church, and deduce that we're all a bunch of hardasses.

And instead of saying "preaching to the choir," maybe I should have said "preaching to the bunker."  I'm sure Voris himself would disagree with me here, but I think that it might be beneficial for his comments to not be so...public.  I think that when it comes to dealing with the world at large, the best way we can fight the battle is with beauty, charity and presenting the truth in a down to earth, approachable way.

That's not to say that I don't think there should be a place for trads to speak candidly and off-the-cuff.  Back before a lot went wrong in my life, I remember hanging out with my Catholic set of friends... a group of young men who loved "a pipe, a pint and a prayer" and we had inside jokes with politically incorrect punchlines.  It was great to let loose without having to worry about being insensitive and offensive.  But if a non-Catholic was with us, we changed our tone.  We tried to talk about the Church in a way that's more polished, not compromising the truth of course, but having some regard for the perspective of the outsider among us.  



Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - christulsa123 - 10-09-2013

(10-09-2013, 12:22 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013/10/would-this-were-end-of-lay-apostolic.html

An interesting account of the event. 

Interesting that the room grew quiet when Michael Matt spoke.


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Maldon - 10-09-2013

I am glad that eponymous had some sort of account, but I would really like something more factual. The blogpost was very enjoyable, but mostly artistic, leaving the rest of us simply wondering what was actually said at key points.

I find it a little eerie that there has been silence since the debate.


Re: Michael Voris vs. Mark Shea Debate Tonight - Clare Brigid - 10-09-2013

(10-09-2013, 01:19 PM)maldon Wrote: I find it a little eerie that there has been silence since the debate.

Apocalypse 8:1.