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Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - Printable Version

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Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - VoxClamantis - 11-24-2013



As an aside, two quotes from Vatican II's Dignitatis Humanae, emphasis mine:


Furthermore, society has the right to defend itself against possible abuses committed on the pretext of freedom of religion. It is the special duty of government to provide this protection. However, government is not to act in an arbitrary fashion or in an unfair spirit of partisanship. Its action is to be controlled by juridical norms which are in conformity with the objective moral order...


...Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.




Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - christulsa123 - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 01:35 PM)voltape Wrote: Trads frown at any changes.  They defend what they have been taught and what inspires them.  This is good. Only that trads must accept that God does not change but people do.  So the religion has to be adapted to the mentality of man in each generation, or we may lose them.  Real tradition is very plain: Holy Trinity, Redemption, Love thy neighbour, Love thy enemies.  Do unto others....
So, you see, Christ the King solemnitas has been for many years the last Sunday of October.  I received my first Communion on Christ the King 1945.
Now it is the last Sunday of the Liturgical Year.  Seems good to me.  So we now sum up the year celebrating the Kingship of Christ, and placing at his feet all our joys and sorrows.

I dont know. You might have the wrong idea about tradition and how religion should adapt to contemporary man.

Tradition involves many things, liturgy, theology, etc.  The very plain truths about God and charity are integrally bound up with the tradition of the Church. Unravel tradition, and what you get at best are sentimental, pseudo-protestant ideas about the Christian faith.

Friend, do you go to the TLM? Is there one near you in Peru?


Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - VoxClamantis - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 02:14 PM)Tim Wrote: I have no power whatsoever to move a Solemnitas, so I bow my head and go along. But I do have an opinion on the Feast of Christ the King The progressives have convinced the more conservative in the Church it's some mystical point in the future. The Trads  are promoting the return of Christendom with the Papal States and the Holy Roman Empire brought back by some hidden King who will return Europe to Kings, Courts, Knights and Ladies. Horsefeathers on both.

Ohhh, Tim, careful with the too-inclusive language -- e.g., "The trads are promoting X, Y, Z..."  Some trads might be (and I'd be happy if they succeeded), but most aren't pushing for such a thing and don't see it as at ALL politically viable, barring supernatural intervention. Simply combating the errors in the idea of a radical separation between Church and state -- that's what I'm after.

Quote: The Social Kingship of Christ is our job, just like EENS it puts a responsibility on us to convert the pagans we live among. s we convert and bring them to the Church, their addition to the right thinking will pressure these willfully wicked governments to acknowledge Christ as the King. In case you haven't noticed Vox is a large proponent of this. She is all about us getting the message of the Good News out there. We have become navel gazers, and not doers.

Right now this is an immense problem. Our world is diabolically disoriented. Go out into the streets and you'll know, right thinking is fighting words. But we need to do it anyway. I believe the solution is "basics". We need a skinny Catechism for the dense. We need then to get them to a place for catechesis of the sacraments, there more can be taught. We need to hand out Brown Scapulars to the fallen away, and rosaries to the ignorant and the fallen away.

This is what the Church needs to push, and all of us need to do.

tim 

Amen to all this. Yes! We have a TON of work to do, and I can sometimes get really discouraged at the lack of "moving foward" with things, the laziness in this regard, and the real problems that center around the facts that so many of us just have too little time and practically zero resources. As to the former, a homeschooling Mom who's dealing with 5 kids under 12 doesn't have the TIME to engage in some of this sort of work that needs to be done.  As to the latter, It just kills me that a Sarah Silverman can sell a used "vag napkin" and raise 50K to promote abortion in Texas -- but we can't get together the funds to accomplish ANYTHING. At least not with regard to FishEaters. Even just getting folks to send me a SASE to get FREE business cards with the FE URL on it to hand out to folks in NO parishes didn't fly. And then to have to fight fellow "trads" -- of the Toxic variety -- on other forums, dealing with the stalkery invasions into my private life, trying to get people to POST, trying to get some basic respect from fellow Catholic apostolates, dealing with people who storm out of here because of things other people post or because they disagree with me about ONE thing  (something I BEGGED them to talk to their priests about) --  I dunno... Like I said, I can get really discouraged sometimes. FE is totally the Rodney Dangerfield of Catholic apostolates. And one that, along with Catholic Answers and ETWN (I know, I know) has probably done more to bring folks to the Church and to Tradition than any other apostolate out there.

Sorry. I know I've been kvetching a lot lately. But I got a lot of kvetch-worthy thoughts and feelings going on lately. After a point, it's kind of hard to not take personally, ya know?
 



Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - loggats - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 02:04 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: The Feast of Christ the King is not particularly "traditional" anyway. It was established in 1925.

The Tridentine reforms aren't particularly "traditional" either, they were established in the late 1500s. Using traditional when you mean old doesn't work.


Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - Roger Buck - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 02:50 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(11-24-2013, 02:14 PM)Tim Wrote: The Social Kingship of Christ is our job, just like EENS it puts a responsibility on us to convert the pagans we live among. s we convert and bring them to the Church, their addition to the right thinking will pressure these willfully wicked governments to acknowledge Christ as the King. In case you haven't noticed Vox is a large proponent of this. She is all about us getting the message of the Good News out there. We have become navel gazers, and not doers.

Right now this is an immense problem. Our world is diabolically disoriented. Go out into the streets and you'll know, right thinking is fighting words. But we need to do it anyway. I believe the solution is "basics". We need a skinny Catechism for the dense. We need then to get them to a place for catechesis of the sacraments, there more can be taught. We need to hand out Brown Scapulars to the fallen away, and rosaries to the ignorant and the fallen away.

This is what the Church needs to push, and all of us need to do.

tim 

Amen to all this. Yes! We have a TON of work to do, and I can sometimes get really discouraged at the lack of "moving foward" with things, the laziness in this regard, and the real problems that center around the facts that so many of us just have too little time and practically zero resources. As to the former, a homeschooling Mom who's dealing with 5 kids under 12 doesn't have the TIME to engage in some of this sort of work that needs to be done.  As to the latter, It just kills me that a Sarah Silverman can sell a used "vag napkin" and raise 50K to promote abortion in Texas -- but we can't get together the funds to accomplish ANYTHING. At least not with regard to FishEaters. Even just getting folks to send me a SASE to get FREE business cards with the FE URL on it to hand out to folks in NO parishes didn't fly. And then to have to fight fellow "trads" -- of the Toxic variety -- on other forums, dealing with the stalkery invasions into my private life, trying to get people to POST, trying to get some basic respect from fellow Catholic apostolates, dealing with people who storm out of here because of things other people post or because they disagree with me about ONE thing  (something I BEGGED them to talk to their priests about) --  I dunno... Like I said, I can get really discouraged sometimes. FE is totally the Rodney Dangerfield of Catholic apostolates.

Sorry. I know I've been kvetching a lot lately. But I got a lot of kvetch-worthy thoughts and feelings going on lately. After a point, it's kind of hard to not take personally, ya know?


Hmm ... there IS indeed a TON of work to do with as Vox (and Tim) say. I worry how truly minoritaire the Traditional Catholic movement really is.

(If you want an indication of that look at Trad books on Amazon. In so many cases, Amazon doesn't even stock them. Yes, second hand Amazon Marketplace dealers do,  ... but Amazon itself. No - it apparently sees so little money in them, they don't even bother.)

I hear your pain about this Vox and am glad that you express it.  I am very interested in discussions on how we can do more, which I am also trying with my own humble website compared to FE ...

Part of the problem here Vox is you are a LEADER. Not everyone is called to that. Leadership is lonely ...

On the other hand, leaders can educate us. I am very genuinely interested in being educated. For example, regarding this:

(11-24-2013, 02:50 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: And one that, along with Catholic Answers and ETWN (I know, I know) has probably done more to bring folks to the Church and to Tradition than any other apostolate out there.


Ideally, if you had time, Vox, I  would like to hear much, much, MUCH more about this. Perhaps you would fear like it would seem like bragging. But I would be interested in specifics to help me gauge things. For example, what kind of folks are we talking about here?

Mainly Protestants?

Mainly lapsed Catholics? Or NO Catholics to traditionalists?

Agnostics, New Agers, Atheists?

You are a leader in this field and I appreciate you educating us ... in part because I want to emulate you.

On a related note, I would also appreciate any more feedback from anyone on "my" weird Christendom College thread  (here: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3434238.0.html)

Why is this related?

1) Because Christendom College is successful! And more traditionalist, I think, than they are letting on.

2) Christendom College is all about Christ the King. Vivo Christo Rey!






Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - Tim - 11-24-2013

I'd like to add this, the at home mother homeschooling her kids is doing it. She is an evangelist par excellance.

tim


Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - VoxClamantis - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 04:54 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: Hmm ... there IS indeed a TON of work to do with as Vox (and Tim) say. I worry how truly minoritaire the Traditional Catholic movement really is.

(If you want an indication of that look at Trad books on Amazon. In so many cases, Amazon doesn't even stock them. Yes, second hand Amazon Marketplace dealers do,  ... but Amazon itself. No - it apparently sees so little money in them, they don't even bother.)

I hear your pain about this Vox and am glad that you express it.  I am very interested in discussions on how we can do more, which I am also trying with my own humble website compared to FE ...  

I don't think there's anything anyone can do anymore, really. Folks seem to be satisfied with how things are. As far as FE goes, aside from some lovely and appreciated financial help and the subscribers that keep this place on the internet, I can't catch a break of a sort that'd allow for forward movement, so it's pretty much "this is as good as it gets," I think.

Quote: Part of the problem here Vox is you are a LEADER. Not everyone is called to that. Leadership is lonely ...

I'm not a leader; I just write stuff. Rather, I wrote stuff when I had the time.

Quote:
On the other hand, leaders can educate us. I am very genuinely interested in being educated. For example, regarding this:

Ideally, if you had time, Vox, I  would like to hear much, much, MUCH more about this. Perhaps you would fear like it would seem like bragging. But I would be interested in specifics to help me gauge things. For example, what kind of folks are we talking about here?

Mainly Protestants?

Mainly lapsed Catholics? Or NO Catholics to traditionalists?

Agnostics, New Agers, Atheists?

Mostly Prots to Catholicism, and Catholics to Tradition. If the site stays up, I'd like to write a section for atheists/agnostics/seculars someday if I ever can, though.

Quote: You are a leader in this field and I appreciate you educating us ... in part because I want to emulate you.

Ha, don't emulate ME, for gosh sakes. Have a life and be happy instead.

Quote: On a related note, I would also appreciate any more feedback from anyone on "my" weird Christendom College thread  (here: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3434238.0.html)

Why is this related?

1) Because Christendom College is successful! And more traditionalist, I think, than they are letting on.

2) Christendom College is all about Christ the King. Vivo Christo Rey!  

Way beyond my ken there, Mr. Roger. But I'd guess other folks out there know something about Christendom College...  But when it comes to colleges, don't forget Fisher More!




Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - formerbuddhist - 11-24-2013

Roman Catholic traditionalism is a minority fringe in the larger Church...not sure if it will ever be more than that in our lifetimes to be honest, not unless we get a Pope that is unabashedly and publicly traditionalist. Really though we should be thankful for what we have, especially if we are blessed with the opportunities to worship and live in the traditional manner. Christ is King of everything but in the end His Kingdom is "not of this world" and so while it's good and noble to try to make Him the King and center of all hearts here on earth politically we should never lose sight of the otherworldly savor of Christianity. We have all the tools both natural and supernatural at our disposal to become holy and to have a place in that otherworldly kingdom...what else are we waiting for?


Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - loggats - 11-24-2013

I've been listening to this quite a bit recently - beware, she's strumming a guitar! (it's beautiful though, trust me).

Litany of Humility, composed by Cardinal Merry, the Secretary of State under Pope Saint Pius X.




Re: Social Kingship of Christ and the new feast of Christ The king - VoxClamantis - 11-24-2013

(11-24-2013, 06:20 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Roman Catholic traditionalism is a minority fringe in the larger Church...not sure if it will ever be more than that in our lifetimes to be honest, not unless we get a Pope that is unabashedly and publicly traditionalist. Really though we should be thankful for what we have, especially if we are blessed with the opportunities to worship and live in the traditional manner. Christ is King of everything but in the end His Kingdom is "not of this world" and so while it's good and noble to try to make Him the King and center of all hearts here on earth politically we should never lose sight of the otherworldly savor of Christianity. We have all the tools both natural and supernatural at our disposal to become holy and to have a place in that otherworldly kingdom...what else are we waiting for?

Barring supernatural intervention, traditional Catholicism definitely won't be anything but a minority, fringe element -- one that will most likely die all the way off as soon as the kids of the Toxic Trads turn 18 and are able to get out of the house and their Toxic Trad parents die.  I think that'd be the case even if we had a liturgically trad Pope, unless he were to ban the Novus Ordo outright.