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Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - Printable Version

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Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - spikepaga - 09-20-2014

Let me start by saying that I am a big fan of Michael Voris.

But what does he think his constant harping of Cardinal Dolan will achieve ? Does he not understand that if Cardinal Dolan was gone/quit/removed/retired , he will be replaced with someone much worse given the Holy Fathers record?

Why does he categorically refuse to acknowledge the grave problems coming directly from the throne of St. Peter? Men like Daneels, Schonborn and Kasper are exalted and men like Burke are put out to pasture. Does he really think that writing an e-mail to a Pope will somehow make a difference?

This Pope is a loose canon and a liability for the Church. It's like Vatican 2 on steroids and embodied in a single individual. If the Church can survive this Pope then it really will serve as proof of her divine and supernatural aspect . It's easier to survive Popes with no morals, rival anti-popes and weak popes than a pope who is a theological weapon of mass destruction .
Remaining quiet about the destruction he explicitly and implicitly causes is being an accomplice to the crime. 

I am 31, but I often wonder wonder how a supposedly thriving Church in the 40's and 50's full of supposedly faithful prelates born in the 1880's and 90's became a smoking ruin in the 60's and on......now I know: people who refused to confront the problem in the face in the style of St. Paul. Well,  except for the maligned Archbishop Lefebvre. 

Railing against bad Bishops who if nothing else are obedient to the Pope in their chaos and confusion  really serves no purpose. Report on the real problem please.


Michael Matt is much more lucid on the mater:







Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - VoxClamantis - 09-20-2014


Mr. Voris doesn't talk about the Pope because, if I understand things correctly (and I paraphrase), there's nothing anyone can do about a Pope. With Bishops and Cardinals and priests and such, there's a place to which we can appeal; with a Pope, there isn't. He is also concerned about people throwing out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to discussing what the Popes are up to.  Me, I take a different tack, but I understand his concerns (esp. after having done what I do for the past 20 years or so, and watching people do just that -- overestimating papal infallibility, mistaking infallibility for impeccability, etc.), and my take is that there's room enough for everyone at the "Catholic apostolate table." I mean, if we all were to do what the next guy does, it'd get boring fast, eh?

I think Mr. Voris does a fantabulous job focusing on what he does focus on (and now he has Christine Niles on his team, a woman I admire very, very much. And she's going to do stuff on camera in the next few weeks!). So power to ChurchMilitantTV, IMO!




Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - Qoheleth - 09-20-2014

I agree 110 percent Vox.  Also no one has more world wide reach  that helps people see what is going on everywhere within the Catholic Church than Michael Voris.  Every day and every way he hammers away at the  unbelievable failing  of many  church leaders.  He is standing up for the truth as we should with our own individual abilities. This entire scenario that is going on in the church worldwide today in some ways reminds me of what took place in England  when the Church was taken over by a heretic and many people just gave in and let it happen and loved their lives more that Jesus.  There were very few St Thomas More types visible any where.  I have little doubt that Michael is willing to lay down his life for the Church, would you?


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - Credidi Propter - 09-20-2014

Hi.  I'm new here.  I'll post an introduction whenever I finish it- I always have trouble writing introduction posts just the way I want, so I'm not quite there yet.

Michael Voris definitely likes to pick on Cardinal Dolan.  Whenever he mentions him, a picture of His Eminence laughing or carrying on with President Obama always shows up- never any reverent or prayerful posture.  Perhaps there's a bit of overkill there, but Cardinal Dolan is VERY influential among bishops, priests, religious, and laity.  I know many Catholics (and I'm in Missouri- not exactly close to New York) who just cling to his every word like he's the greatest thing ever.  Because of his influence, more is required of him- more clarity, more courage to fight the culture of death, and more courage.  I'm sure he's a great guy just to be around, but as Ven. Archbishop Fulton J Sheen once said in The Priest is not His Own, "we become significant to our fellow men not by being a 'regular guy,' but by being another Christ."

Michael Voris played a recording (I think it was yesterday) of Cardinal Dolan saying the Gay Pride group intending to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade was not living in sin.  A person can be living in sin without actually having sex.  They can give bad counsel to sin (Some of the harshest words Our Lord ever spoke were to those who corrupt the innocent).  They can be silent when those around them are living in sin (also a bad thing).  They can cause scandal because they appear to most reasonable people to be living in or advocating tolerance of sin.  Sin is the only thing that can send someone to hell- no room for tolerance there.  His Eminence ought to have said- in charity- that they appear to be advocating homosexual activity and that this is not in line with God's law (i.e. sin- gotta say that too), and taken the perfect opportunity set before him to concisely explain the Church's teaching on the matter and how to work towards living them.  Cardinal Dolan seems to have really gone off the rails here, and because of his influence among so many and for the good of his soul, I am glad that Michael Voris called him out on it.


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - JCCMADD - 09-20-2014

Voris is right on many points however he will not start at the head the current bishop of rome is a destoryer of the faith. A fish goes rotten from the head.


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - austenbosten - 09-20-2014

I agree with Michael Voris. What good does it to constantly criticise a Pope, who let's be honest. All I see is hyped-up fear among Trads that he's going to "change Church Teaching" that he's going to "ban the Extraordinary Form" that he's going to "allow divorced and re-married people Holy Communion"

Nothing but a bunch of pent up fear and nonsense from a group of people who do nothing but look at everything His Holiness does with a critical eye. I was part of that group and I will still say that I prefer Benedict to Francis, but I am really getting sick and tired of these so-called "Traditional Catholics" doing nothing but trashing the Pope and every-thing he does.

Louie Verracchio is a perfect example. I really like him, but so far I've had to turn off the blog, because the man simply is just filled with bitterness and anger towards the Holy Father. He spends all his time trashing Pope Francis and St John Paul II and I have to ask...how does all this harsh and uncharitable criticism do anything to help one's Faith and bring them closer to God?

This constant criticism and harshness does nothing more than expose a group of Catholics who show no unity and would rather bitch than pray and for an outsider looking in...who would want to sign up for that?

At first I was critical of Michael Voris refusing to go after Pope Francis, but seeing how The Remnant and Louie's blog has literally gone off the rails and spend all their waking energy criticising Pope Francis and screaming Chicken Little....I really see the wisdom in Michael Voris's choice.

MHO


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - spikepaga - 09-20-2014

I am not calling into question his love for the Church or his devotion. The tittle says I am a big fan.

But Mr. Matt is right. How can we blame Dolan for following the example of his boss? How can we blame Kasper and Daneels for doing what they do when they get exalted and Cardinal Burke gets the axe for saying the truth.?

My point is that his policy to not critizise a Pope who is presiding over a spiritual reign of terror over the Church is a very bad decision. He is doing exactly what he blames the other catholic media of doing by not reporting and commenting on the real problem in the Church at this moment. The problem is clear and has a name : Pope Francis I.

If his fear is disrespecting the Papacy, there is a respectful and catholic way of saying what desperately needs to be said instead of suggesting we should write e-mails and not talk about it.  The Pope needs to know that there is a very strong resistance to his agenda of destruction.

Worring about Dolan leading a parade  with gays is INSIGNIFICANT compared to what Pope Francis and Cardinal Kasper are trying to achieve in the upcoming Synod and the fact that the heads of conservative Cardinals keep on getting personally cut of by the Pope. The story IS NOT Dolan. Not by a long shot




Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - austenbosten - 09-20-2014

(09-20-2014, 02:22 PM)spikepaga Wrote: Worring about Dolan leading a parade  with gays is INSIGNIFICANT compared to what Pope Francis and Cardinal Kasper are trying to achieve in the upcoming Synod and the fact that the heads of conservative Cardinals keep on getting personally cut of by the Pope. The story IS NOT Dolan. Not by a long shot

I think the big differences between Mr. Matt and Mr. Voris, is that Michael Voris criticises actions the bishop has already done, while men like Mr. Matt and Ferarra are criticising actions that have not happened. Voris is acting upon actions of the Bishop, Matt is acting upon fears.

We don't know what will happen at the synod, we do know for a fact that the synod is being called because of the crisis in marriage in the world and the Church and the synod is to seek how to better teach Catholic Teaching on marriage to their dioceses.

Whether or not they try and "change anything" is pure speculation.


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - LaramieHirsch - 09-20-2014

(09-20-2014, 02:10 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I agree with Michael Voris. What good does it to constantly criticise a Pope

For starters, it helps folks get perspective when they know the source of a problem.


Re: Big Fan of Voris. Done with the "Lesé-majesté " policy - Maldon - 09-20-2014

What I don't get is why people are not blaming Benedict XVI for any of this. He was old and tired. They are all old, and, well, the replacement has one lung.

I know this sounds weird, but I cannot see how we can blame Francis and NOT blame Benedict. 
I suppose I should begin by saying that I don;t know enough about Voris' working conditions to know if he can criticize the Pope if he wants to or not. I mean, there might be consequences for such a thing. There shouldn't be, but there might be. Also, he is perhaps looking to influence things at a grassroots level, and for all we know has already despaired of seeing any improvements coming from Rome. I don't think we know enough.

But back to my original view, this present state of affairs was a result of the resignation, unprecedented and almost without parallel in the history of the Church, of Benedict. It is impossible for me not to place the blame solidly there. Or, rather, should we think that he, having been CDF for YEARS and then Pope for YEARS, being familiar with ALL of the Church's problems, did not realize what would happen? Are you kidding me? He didn't know? He didn't suspect? He thought the guys would get someone else? He was ignorant of his Curia? He was ignorant of Church politics? He, the theological brain, the liturgical brain, the intellectual Pope DID NOT KNOW? This is option A. If this is what happened, then he is the worst pope in all of history, being most ignorant at precisely the most crucial moment since the Arian crisis. Option A.
Option B is that someone had some serious dirt on HIM. I actually think this is a better option. It would at least not be insane, as is Option A. Remember his last great speech, blistering criticism of the media. And this was right on the heels of the document on homosexuals in the Curia etc. being placed on his desk. Guys had started to jump ship already. Cardinal from Scotland jumped ship before it hit the fan. Cardinal from Portugal as well I think. And then, all of a sudden, he is leaving.

So, I suppose that I can see a place for Voris' method. Grassroots, looking to get to parents and young men and women and seminarians, going over the heads of the ordinary channels, do some work now that will have positive effects later. But as for whether one should criticize Pope Francis or not, I think that when the occasion does call for criticism, one must criticize BOTH popes that we now have. And just as there would be none of this wild Kaspar rubbish without Francis, there would be no Francis without Benedict. So if Pope Francis is on the hook, so should Benedict be. Either way, nothing is going to change until a lot of old guys die and a lot of people who do not believe anything simply leave the Church and stop running things.