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Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Printable Version

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Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Oldavid - 04-21-2015

Many years ago I came across a great, humble, nobody who seemed to be perfectly happy to be despised for being an "ordinary" diocesan priest and professor of philosophy at a prestigious university.

He was a huge man (although just about anyone is "huge" compared to me) well over 6 and a half feet tall, 2 axe-handles across the shoulders, and, even though he was well over 60 years old when I knew him his unkempt cassock could not hide the muscles and sinews that said that he was once a very powerful athlete.

In his characteristic booming, bass, drawl he said: "Now geet thiis into your thiiick heeead! If you never geeet anythiiing else into your thiiick heeead at least geeet thiiis! A Thiing that doesn't exiiist cannot cauuuse itself to exiiist!"

I was barely out of adolescence at the time so I thought "that's silly... it's perfectly obvious... why make a big deal of it?"  Later I began to realise that all of God hating "philosophy" presumes that everything that exists caused itself to exist for no reason and by no possible (natural) mechanism.

Now, I would tend to disagree with Mr Michael above, in that it's not the poor wretches who blame their deficiencies on the "system"... it may or may not be so... but I have serious disagreement with the "successful" exploiters of the "system" who justify themselves by saying "I deserve what I can get because the fact that I can get it proves that I am "superior" to everyone else". It's that ghastly Pommy Protestant notion that "God gave me it because I am worthy of it"... and, conversely, if you don't have it you're not worthy of it.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - J Michael - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 01:55 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Many years ago I came across a great, humble, nobody who seemed to be perfectly happy to be despised for being an "ordinary" diocesan priest and professor of philosophy at a prestigious university.

He was a huge man (although just about anyone is "huge" compared to me) well over 6 and a half feet tall, 2 axe-handles across the shoulders, and, even though he was well over 60 years old when I knew him his unkempt cassock could not hide the muscles and sinews that said that he was once a very powerful athlete.

In his characteristic booming, bass, drawl he said: "Now geet thiis into your thiiick heeead! If you never geeet anythiiing else into your thiiick heeead at least geeet thiiis! A Thiing that doesn't exiiist cannot cauuuse itself to exiiist!"

I was barely out of adolescence at the time so I thought "that's silly... it's perfectly obvious... why make a big deal of it?"  Later I began to realise that all of God hating "philosophy" presumes that everything that exists caused itself to exist for no reason and by no possible (natural) mechanism.

Now, I would tend to disagree with Mr Michael above, in that it's not the poor wretches who blame their deficiencies on the "system"... it may or may not be so... but I have serious disagreement with the "successful" exploiters of the "system" who justify themselves by saying "I deserve what I can get because the fact that I can get it proves that I am "superior" to everyone else". It's that ghastly Pommy Protestant notion that "God gave me it because I am worthy of it"... and, conversely, if you don't have it you're not worthy of it.

Nicely said, Mr. Old!!  It sounds, though, more like you're stating what I unfortunately left unsaid than actually disagreeing with me, because I too have that same very serious disagreement that you iterated.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Oldavid - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 02:01 PM)J Michael Wrote: It sounds, though, more like you're stating what I unfortunately left unsaid than actually disagreeing with me, because I too have that same very serious disagreement that you iterated.
Boring!!

How are we ever going to instigate a ding-dong fight around here if we all agree on everything?

Never mind, perhaps Dirge-able, Renal-brother or Mel Kite will seize a weakness in my argument (there is at least one circumstantial) and try to fit a camel through it.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Melkite - 04-21-2015

(04-21-2015, 05:23 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Never mind, perhaps Dirge-able, Renal-brother or Mel Kite will seize a weakness in my argument (there is at least one circumstantial) and try to fit a camel through it.

J Michael advised I bow out of this argument for my peace of mind, so I accepted his advice.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Oldavid - 04-27-2015

Mr Michael has not been notable by his presence for a while.

Not surprising for me. I've always had that effect on people.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - J Michael - 04-27-2015

(04-27-2015, 12:53 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Mr Michael has not been notable by his presence for a while.

Not surprising for me. I've always had that effect on people.

Oh, I've been here and there, on and off... :) 


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Oldavid - 05-10-2015

(04-27-2015, 01:29 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 12:53 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Mr Michael has not been notable by his presence for a while.

Not surprising for me. I've always had that effect on people.

Oh, I've been here and there, on and off... :)
And even here and there and under a rock you've not found anything about good and evil to contemplate?

It's hard to get a decent argument going these days.


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - J Michael - 05-10-2015

(05-10-2015, 11:39 AM)Oldavid Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 01:29 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 12:53 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Mr Michael has not been notable by his presence for a while.

Not surprising for me. I've always had that effect on people.

Oh, I've been here and there, on and off... :)
And even here and there and under a rock you've not found anything about good and evil to contemplate?

It's hard to get a decent argument going these days.

Oh, there's plenty to contemplate about good and evil, especially the good I don't do and the evil I do, but..why argue with you if I agree with you?  I'm not really as argumentative as that, despite some appearances and opinions to the contrary. 


Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - Oldavid - 05-12-2015

(05-10-2015, 12:41 PM)J Michael Wrote: Oh, there's plenty to contemplate about good and evil, especially the good I don't do and the evil I do, but..why argue with you if I agree with you?  I'm not really as argumentative as that, despite some appearances and opinions to the contrary.
Ah! You dear fellow! You do a great job of making us miserable sinners seem important for the Great Scheme of things.

I was going to ask you how you know that you know that the evil you confess to is really evil?

Anyhow;
You see,. I've been banned from a couple of forums recently for, shall we say (euphemistically), not being convenient to a pompous, pretentious, view of Catholicism that suits a "middle class" social dynamic.

I recon that Catholicism has been presented for many years as a toffy middle/upper class preserve where ugly wretches like me are scarcely tolerated.

But I further detach myself from middle class convenience by suggesting that Pope Frank (the first and worst) defies the fundamentals of Christianity to curry a political favour with the perverse and/or ignorant.

In this day and age of information technology the ignorant should not exist except as hapless captives of some ideology.

That is a crude view of some of my opinions. There's good in it somewhere.



Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - J Michael - 05-12-2015

(05-12-2015, 08:57 AM)Oldavid Wrote:
(05-10-2015, 12:41 PM)J Michael Wrote: Oh, there's plenty to contemplate about good and evil, especially the good I don't do and the evil I do, but..why argue with you if I agree with you?  I'm not really as argumentative as that, despite some appearances and opinions to the contrary.
Ah! You dear fellow! You do a great job of making us miserable sinners seem important for the Great Scheme of things.

Ah, but we are, at least in God's eyes.  Or so I've read...

(05-12-2015, 08:57 AM)Oldavid Wrote: I was going to ask you how you know that you know that the evil you confess to is really evil?

So, are you, in a round about kind of way, actually asking, or just thinking out loud, as it were? :)

(05-12-2015, 08:57 AM)Oldavid Wrote: Anyhow;
You see,. I've been banned from a couple of forums recently for, shall we say (euphemistically), not being convenient to a pompous, pretentious, view of Catholicism that suits a "middle class" social dynamic.

I recon that Catholicism has been presented for many years as a toffy middle/upper class preserve where ugly wretches like me are scarcely tolerated.

But I further detach myself from middle class convenience by suggesting that Pope Frank (the first and worst) defies the fundamentals of Christianity to curry a political favour with the perverse and/or ignorant.

In this day and age of information technology the ignorant should not exist except as hapless captives of some ideology.

That is a crude view of some of my opinions. There's good in it somewhere.

Yes, to the extent that I agree with you, which is pretty much on all points you mention above, there certainly is good in it.  How do I know that?  A) I don't; B) Because I agree with you.  :LOL: