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Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Printable Version

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Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - PrairieMom - 02-18-2016

(02-18-2016, 01:40 PM)Michael Levanduski Wrote:
(02-18-2016, 01:36 PM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: Part of me is thinking WTH?  And part of me is considering the source; yahoo's not know for honest reporting on anything Catholic.

Similar stories are popping up all over it seems.  Seems to be a legit story.

Yes, in the local news here it's a tailpiece to the Pope-Trump wall smackdown going on right now too.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Jeeter - 02-18-2016

Interesting how contraceptives came up, but not Church approved methods, like NFP.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - PrairieMom - 02-18-2016

(02-18-2016, 05:35 PM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: Interesting how contraceptives came up, but not Church approved methods, like NFP.

Super odd, considering:

1. NFP is empowering in that it requires education of women.
2. Is cost-effective, which is important in places where money is scarce.
3. Is better for the environment because you're not secreting hormones into the waterways.
4. Keeps money out of the pockets of large multi-national corporations.

I mean, aren't these all messages he's touted during his pontificate?


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - austenbosten - 02-18-2016

(02-18-2016, 05:25 PM)PrairieMom Wrote: Apparently the application of logic eludes most people, including our beloved Pontiff.

You know the saying, "More Catholic than the Pope"? I'm always aware of it when critiquing stuff like this, but seriously...

You can now snappily retort that being More Catholic than the Pope, is setting the bar low.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Byzantine - 02-18-2016

I'm Orthodox and I've never been comfortable with my communion's stance on contraception, not because allowing it under pastoral guidance in certain extreme cases is intrinsically bad, but because it appears that most people take this to mean that you can use contraception in ANY situation (with whoever you want). There are other clergy who agree with me but unfortunately it seems to have become a cultural norm at this point. I'm not terribly well informed of the situation but this is my impression based on articles.

I don't want the Catholic Church to fall into the same situation.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Jeeter - 02-19-2016

(02-18-2016, 07:11 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(02-18-2016, 05:35 PM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: Interesting how contraceptives came up, but not Church approved methods, like NFP.

Super odd, considering:

1. NFP is empowering in that it requires education of women.
2. Is cost-effective, which is important in places where money is scarce.
3. Is better for the environment because you're not secreting hormones into the waterways.
4. Keeps money out of the pockets of large multi-national corporations.

I mean, aren't these all messages he's touted during his pontificate?

He has indeed brought those topics up during his papacy, which again makes me wonder: since the article's from yahoo, how much of the pope's quote got "accidentally edited" out of the article?

On another, yet related note, has there been a serious, no-joke study of Zika rates in pregnancy?  During x time period, y number of pregnancies were conceived, z number of Zika infections occurred among those women, and of those q number of infections were passed along to the baby in utero...  Just curious.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Optatus Cleary - 02-19-2016

The most disturbing thing is how this is being reported. Most non-Catholics I see discussing this, as well as uninformed Catholics, seem to truly believe the Pope has given permission for women in Zika-affected areas to use birth control pills.  Only a tiny minority even know what he actually said, and only a tiny minority of those have any reason to correct the misinterpretation.  A fair number of people, I suspect a majority, believe that Pope Francis says that homosexual behavior is acceptable. When I have tried to explain that he didn't, people don't believe me and assume that I am just a bigot who is twisting the Pope's words. This situation is almost worse than that one because it affects more people and the Pope was even more ambiguous.

What's missing from the Pope's comments, of course, is logic. There are worse things than Zika. I can think of about ten situations off the top of my head right now that make pregnancy undesirable in a manner on par with Zika. If contraception is okay for Zika, it's okay for those situations too.  And if contraception is situationally appropriate, it makes the most sense to leave it up to couples. All of a sudden you have the very situation "Byzantine" describes above. Unfortunately, you also have the refutation of the Church's claim to be the true Church. If contraception is objectively acceptable, and the Church has taught against it, the Church isn't really the Church. I think some people (and perhaps some popes) don't realize what dangerous ground they tread.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - PrairieMom - 02-19-2016

(02-19-2016, 09:43 AM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: On another, yet related note, has there been a serious, no-joke study of Zika rates in pregnancy?  During x time period, y number of pregnancies were conceived, z number of Zika infections occurred among those women, and of those q number of infections were passed along to the baby in utero...  Just curious.

I highly doubt there will ever be one. It's not in the interests of the parties involved to have one.

Let's put it another way:

New evidence that has come to light in the past week or so suggests that the explosion of microcephaly predates the intoduction of the Zika virus to the Americas.

Countries with high Zika infection rates such I think it was Columbia, have had a zero increases in birth defects.

The vast majority of cases of birth defects originate from one area in Brazil only.

There's money to be made with it being Zika is staggering when you think about it. There's vaccines to develop and distribute, abortions to perform, contraception to provide, not the mention it will discourage people from becoming pregnant in a country with a relatively high birthrate which fulfills the mandate of population reduction. If Zika is in fact found not to be the cause, I sincerely think it will be surpressed.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - Jeeter - 02-19-2016

(02-19-2016, 12:41 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(02-19-2016, 09:43 AM)Sir Charles Napier Wrote: On another, yet related note, has there been a serious, no-joke study of Zika rates in pregnancy?  During x time period, y number of pregnancies were conceived, z number of Zika infections occurred among those women, and of those q number of infections were passed along to the baby in utero...  Just curious.

I highly doubt there will ever be one. It's not in the interests of the parties involved to have one.

Let's put it another way:

New evidence that has come to light in the past week or so suggests that the explosion of microcephaly predates the intoduction of the Zika virus to the Americas.

Countries with high Zika infection rates such I think it was Columbia, have had a zero increases in birth defects.

The vast majority of cases of birth defects originate from one area in Brazil only.

There's money to be made with it being Zika is staggering when you think about it. There's vaccines to develop and distribute, abortions to perform, contraception to provide, not the mention it will discourage people from becoming pregnant in a country with a relatively high birthrate which fulfills the mandate of population reduction. If Zika is in fact found not to be the cause, I sincerely think it will be surpressed.

If all that's true, it's starting to sound like maybe the birth defects being blamed on Zika are a cover up for industrial pollution.  Think of the Superfund sites here, except companies haven't been forced to pay.


Re: Pope signals possible limited opening contraception in Zika cases - austenbosten - 02-20-2016

(02-19-2016, 11:17 AM)Optatus Cleary Wrote: What's missing from the Pope's comments, of course, is logic. There are worse things than Zika. I can think of about ten situations off the top of my head right now that make pregnancy undesirable in a manner on par with Zika. If contraception is okay for Zika, it's okay for those situations too.  And if contraception is situationally appropriate, it makes the most sense to leave it up to couples. All of a sudden you have the very situation "Byzantine" describes above. Unfortunately, you also have the refutation of the Church's claim to be the true Church. If contraception is objectively acceptable, and the Church has taught against it, the Church isn't really the Church. I think some people (and perhaps some popes) don't realize what dangerous ground they tread.

I agree with what Ann Barnhardt (Catholic vitriolic nut-case (though not so nutty) blogger) when she says not only did this comment make it sound like he was okay with contraception, but with eugenics.  Zika virus causes microcephaly, basically a life-unworth-of-life (hattip Barnhardt and 3rd Reich).  That's the only problem with the Zika virus...that it produces sick babies....this comment basically says no babies are better than sick babies.

Hmmm....

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