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More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Printable Version

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Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - J Michael - 05-21-2016

I was an altar server for several years in the Orthodox Church.  It was a great experience and mostly I loved doing it.  My back, however, had a different opinion about it all. :crazy:


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Melkite - 05-21-2016

(05-21-2016, 01:30 PM)J Michael Wrote: I was an altar server for several years in the Orthodox Church.  It was a great experience and mostly I loved doing it.  My back, however, had a different opinion about it all. :crazy:

My favorite part was carrying the censor.  It was kind of fun swinging the censor while trying to walk backwards during the processions, lol.


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - PrairieMom - 05-21-2016

(05-21-2016, 03:02 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: PrairieMom, thanks for sharing. I wished for this article to go as viral as possible, and it almost has.

(05-19-2016, 11:01 AM)Fontevrault Wrote: That's him alright!  He used to post her a lot.  He was always an advocate for bringing back the minor orders which is what made me think of it.  :grin:  He's a great guy and married now.  I think he's got at least one kiddo by now.  His stuff is well worth reading.  He is usually logical, historically based, deeply reverent, and a lot of fun all at the same time. 

Yes, it is indeed me. I quietly left the forum a while back because the atmosphere was no longer what I remembered when I first joined; but then I saw one of my articles posted here, via a tracker I use to see who reposts my stuff. (It's all very Person of Interesty, I know.) I'm going to take a look around and see what's up at FishEaters recently. One thing I like the design overhaul since I was last here.

:grin:


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Uxi - 05-21-2016

I still serve for the FSSP, usually as MC once a month and Low Mass weekly.  My knees don't like torchbearer on the marble much anymore but usually try to just train and guide new servers.  My eldest son is 6 and can start serving when he's 7.  He has a year to master the Latin responses.


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Poche - 05-23-2016

(05-21-2016, 03:09 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 12:09 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-19-2016, 12:14 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: When we explained to the boys that altar servers learn the mass and perhaps one day might consider a vocation to the priesthood, my daughter wanted to know what kind of "training program" there is for becoming a nun.  :LOL:
Nursing, child care, assistant to the catechist, sewing, singing in the choir, arrangement of flowers, arts and crafts, 

With the exception of perhaps singing and (in some orders, nursing), none of those things have anything to do with religious life for women! Even the singing is primarily for a religious sister's obligation to pray the Divine Office in common. But in the parish, the primacy of place in choirs should go to men and boys. I'm aware this ideal is so rarely realized that it's almost entirely forgotten, but it is, in fact, the subject of my next upcoming blog post.

Education (particularly of girls) has been an important part of the vocation of women religious for many years. Also the care of orphans. Sewing is a useful skill for a girl who is interested in religious life. Then they can sew and repair the vestments and altar clothes.  With the arrangement of flowers and arts and crafts this has to with helping in the decoration of the church and the altar. The altar clothes and the vestments need to be repaired and cleaned from time to time. If there is a garden around the church that might also be another project for a girl who is thinking about religious life.


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Poche - 05-23-2016

2.)  The overall decline of religiosity among men. It's often observed that, in Europe, the men tend to stay in the back of the church (if they bother to come at all) and chatter amongst themselves about sports or other trivialities while the women and children sit up front. Accounts of the 19th and early 20th centuries tell the same story, particularly amongst certain ethnic groups, such as Italians, where religion had become something deemed highly personal or worse, feminine. It's hard to blame them: my office has a framed photograph of a class of altar boys taken in the late 1940's from my boss's neighborhood parish in south Philadelphia (an old Italian-American community), where he grew up and was eventually ordained priest. No boy appears above the age of 12. All are clad with white gloves, ridiculous bows around their necks, and (judging by the shade in this black-and-white photo) red cassocks. One can easily imagine they were all fawned over by their mothers and grandmothers, pinching their cheeks and exclaiming how much their chierichetti ("little priests") looked like cardinals in miniature. And one can imagine just as well how boys accustomed to treating the Catholic faith as an exercise in "cuteness" were all too happy to shed the cassock and surplice once they were deemed too old and impure to continue serving the altar.

I would tend to dispute the above assertion. The Notre Dame archives contain evidence that this was the situation also in the 18th century also in how the religious practice was at that time.


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Fontevrault - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 12:41 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 03:09 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 12:09 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-19-2016, 12:14 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: When we explained to the boys that altar servers learn the mass and perhaps one day might consider a vocation to the priesthood, my daughter wanted to know what kind of "training program" there is for becoming a nun.  :LOL:
Nursing, child care, assistant to the catechist, sewing, singing in the choir, arrangement of flowers, arts and crafts, 

With the exception of perhaps singing and (in some orders, nursing), none of those things have anything to do with religious life for women! Even the singing is primarily for a religious sister's obligation to pray the Divine Office in common. But in the parish, the primacy of place in choirs should go to men and boys. I'm aware this ideal is so rarely realized that it's almost entirely forgotten, but it is, in fact, the subject of my next upcoming blog post.

Education (particularly of girls) has been an important part of the vocation of women religious for many years. Also the care of orphans. Sewing is a useful skill for a girl who is interested in religious life. Then they can sew and repair the vestments and altar clothes.  With the arrangement of flowers and arts and crafts this has to with helping in the decoration of the church and the altar. The altar clothes and the vestments need to be repaired and cleaned from time to time. If there is a garden around the church that might also be another project for a girl who is thinking about religious life.

Sadly, there isn't a "club" or "group" for her to participate in.  I think that was what she was after.  However, I will say her education includes much of what you suggest here.  Flower arranging is not something I thought to teach her though.  I may need to study it myself.  :)


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - PrairieMom - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 09:20 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(05-23-2016, 12:41 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 03:09 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 12:09 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-19-2016, 12:14 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: When we explained to the boys that altar servers learn the mass and perhaps one day might consider a vocation to the priesthood, my daughter wanted to know what kind of "training program" there is for becoming a nun.  :LOL:
Nursing, child care, assistant to the catechist, sewing, singing in the choir, arrangement of flowers, arts and crafts, 

some ideas for her:

https://www.chcweb.com/catalog/category8_213/catalog.html

http://0307843.netsolhost.com/beholdmain/LFGC_home.htm

With the exception of perhaps singing and (in some orders, nursing), none of those things have anything to do with religious life for women! Even the singing is primarily for a religious sister's obligation to pray the Divine Office in common. But in the parish, the primacy of place in choirs should go to men and boys. I'm aware this ideal is so rarely realized that it's almost entirely forgotten, but it is, in fact, the subject of my next upcoming blog post.

Education (particularly of girls) has been an important part of the vocation of women religious for many years. Also the care of orphans. Sewing is a useful skill for a girl who is interested in religious life. Then they can sew and repair the vestments and altar clothes.  With the arrangement of flowers and arts and crafts this has to with helping in the decoration of the church and the altar. The altar clothes and the vestments need to be repaired and cleaned from time to time. If there is a garden around the church that might also be another project for a girl who is thinking about religious life.

Sadly, there isn't a "club" or "group" for her to participate in.  I think that was what she was after.  However, I will say her education includes much of what you suggest here.  Flower arranging is not something I thought to teach her though.  I may need to study it myself.  :)



Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Poche - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 09:20 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(05-23-2016, 12:41 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 03:09 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-21-2016, 12:09 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-19-2016, 12:14 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: When we explained to the boys that altar servers learn the mass and perhaps one day might consider a vocation to the priesthood, my daughter wanted to know what kind of "training program" there is for becoming a nun.  :LOL:
Nursing, child care, assistant to the catechist, sewing, singing in the choir, arrangement of flowers, arts and crafts, 

With the exception of perhaps singing and (in some orders, nursing), none of those things have anything to do with religious life for women! Even the singing is primarily for a religious sister's obligation to pray the Divine Office in common. But in the parish, the primacy of place in choirs should go to men and boys. I'm aware this ideal is so rarely realized that it's almost entirely forgotten, but it is, in fact, the subject of my next upcoming blog post.

Education (particularly of girls) has been an important part of the vocation of women religious for many years. Also the care of orphans. Sewing is a useful skill for a girl who is interested in religious life. Then they can sew and repair the vestments and altar clothes.  With the arrangement of flowers and arts and crafts this has to with helping in the decoration of the church and the altar. The altar clothes and the vestments need to be repaired and cleaned from time to time. If there is a garden around the church that might also be another project for a girl who is thinking about religious life.

Sadly, there isn't a "club" or "group" for her to participate in.  I think that was what she was after.  However, I will say her education includes much of what you suggest here.  Flower arranging is not something I thought to teach her though.  I may need to study it myself.  :)

Another thing she could think about are groups of prayer, the Legion of Mary, the Blue Army, a Marian group that prays the rosary before or after mass.
The role of women religious is different from that of the priest and the different orders or those who serve at mass but very important. How many people of this forum were taught by nuns?


Re: More than boys; why men are needed to serve the altar - Fontevrault - 05-24-2016

I would never suggest that nuns were not important - even if I was never taught by one.  There is no Legion of Mary group at our parish.  I will perhaps look into starting one.