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Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Printable Version

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Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Justin Alphonsus - 03-14-2017

I am just going to post a link to Life Site News, be warned in advance that it is incredibly disgusting and blasphemous, probably the most blasphemous thing I have seen yet (I am not lying about that, but I can only imagine it will get worse with time).

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/feminist-dressed-as-virgin-mary-pretends-to-abort-jesus-in-front-of-cathedr

With this in mind, is it a sin to strike a blasphemer... and I mean really, really, really hard.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Dominicus - 03-14-2017

Well in some cases it may be allowable or even good to attack a blasphemer but this is often not the case. Important factors need to be taken into consideration such as... How will the people around you see it? What example are you giving? Will it lead the blasphemer to repentance? What feelings are motivating you to attack this person?

As Jesus demonstrated sometimes righteous anger is necessary but sometimes it is mistaken with rage. The two are not the same, one comes from God and the other comes from the Devil. We must be prudent and evaluate the circumstances before acting rashly. If it is not done out of charity then it is done out of malice. Then again St. Nicholas punched Arius for denying the divinity of Christ.

Our Lord said to His disciple who attacked one of His captors at the time of His betrayal "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot ask my Father, and he will give me presently more than twelve legions of angels?"


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Justin Alphonsus - 03-14-2017

Seeing these things, I would not be surprised if the Devil would like to use this to get us angry to the point of rage, he wins on both accounts.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Miriam_M - 03-14-2017

I feel like punching James Martin, S.J., for his almost daily blasphemies, but to punch him would be a mortal sin, so if I had the misfortune to meet the man in person, I would restrain myself.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - BC - 03-14-2017

(03-14-2017, 12:30 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: Seeing these things, I would not be surprised if the Devil would like to use this to get us angry to the point of rage, he wins on both accounts.

I am not so sure.  If I am not mistaken, Leo Dupont, the Holy Man of Tours responsible for spreading Devotion to the Holy Face in reparation for blasphemy in the 19th century, slapped a woman right in the face merely for disrespectfully talking during Mass.

Think about that for a second. 

King St. Louis had public blasphemers branded on the lips.  He was a saint.  Of course that was in the realm of distributed justice from Government Authority and not the responsibility of citizens to execute on site. 

St. John Chrysostom

Only the person who becomes irate without reason, sins. Whoever becomes irate for a just reason is not guilty. Because, if ire were lacking, the science of God would not progress, judgments would not be sound, and crimes would not be repressed.

Further, the person who does not become irate when he has cause to be, sins. For an unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices: it fosters negligence, and stimulates not only the wicked, but above all the good, to do wrong. (Homily XI super Matheum,  1c, nt.7)


St. Thomas Aquinas

Ire may be understood in two ways.

In one way, as a simple movement of the will that inflicts punishment not through passion, but by virtue of a judgment of the reason: and in this case, without a doubt, lack of ire is a sin. This is how Chrysostom understands ire when he says: ‘Ire, when it has a cause, is not ire but judgment. For properly speaking, ire is a movement of passion. And when a man is irate with just cause, his ire does not derive from passion. Rather, it is an act of judgment, not of ire.”

In another way, ire can be understood as a movement of the sensitive appetite agitated by passion with bodily excitation. This movement is a necessary sequel in man to the previous movement of his will, since the lower appetite naturally follows the movement of the higher appetite unless some obstacle prevents it. Hence the movement of ire in the sensitive appetite cannot be lacking altogether, unless the movement of the will is altogether lacking or weak. Consequently, the lack of the passion of ire is also a vice, as it is the lack of movement in the will to punish according to the judgment of reason.  (Summa Theologiae, II, II, q. 158, art. 8)


http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/n007rp_Irate.htm



Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Credidi Propter - 03-14-2017

(03-14-2017, 10:21 AM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: I am just going to post a link to Life Site News, be warned in advance that it is incredibly disgusting and blasphemous, probably the most blasphemous thing I have seen yet (I am not lying about that, but I can only imagine it will get worse with time).

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/feminist-dressed-as-virgin-mary-pretends-to-abort-jesus-in-front-of-cathedr

With this in mind, is it a sin to strike a blasphemer... and I mean really, really, really hard.

In that case, I wouldn't deal with someone by walking up and punching them.  God willing, I would do something more subtle and far more shocking.  I'm not sure what that would be yet, but they did what they did to be shocking and I would beat them at that game.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Jeeter - 03-14-2017

I admit, I'd be sorely tempted to tie his head to his rear, then kick it down the road, but upon further consideration, that would play into the whole "look how violent these Christians are" nonsense.  Perhaps have someone recording as I politely and calmly ask, "Why are you doing something I find so offensive?"  Something along those lines.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - Panum - 03-14-2017

I think it best to first realize that a person saying stupid or blasphemous things is as much a victim of the devil as anybody. So the thing is, if you are submissive to the Holy Spirit it might be just the thing to show (key word) righteous anger. I can only say this has happened to me maybe twice. And this from one who readily engages in debate with heathens. Once when debating the sin of abortion with a bunch of sick co-workers, one such person took the conversation into a very sick and disgusting place. So in becoming rather angry with him, I pointed at his face and declared (very loud) "you sir are a very sick and demented person, and you need to get professional help" His reaction was as if I had punched him in the face, he backed away from me with a look of fear on his face, saying "no...no" repeatedly and left.

Most of the time when someone says something offensive during a debate I will pause and ask the Holy Spirit "what do you want me to say or do here".  I think this is a very important habit to get into because sometimes I am surprised by the thought that enters into my mind and it is often an oblique thought. It might be something like "offer them a cup of coffee" or a question like "why are you so angry with your dad? I have found the Holy Spirit always knows how to get to a soul, so I want to know this when possible. An essential value in this is that you must have charity for their soul and want them to know Christ.


Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - MeanGene - 03-14-2017

In certain extreme cases it may not be a sin to strike someone who is being incredibly vulgar and blasphemous, but given today's environment it would probably always be an imprudent thing to do because of how our culture would interpret such an event. Whether we like it or not we live in a culture that assumes that religious views never really rise above the level of personal opinion. So unless you're being physically attacked you won't be able to justify any violence you bring to the table. In fact even if you passively accept your dry martyrdom the powers that be in our culture will still imply that you were being violent.

It's easier said then done of course. I've mentioned in past posts that I have several cousins that are as far left as one can be and they have absolutely said and done things to me that would have justified a slap across the face. I know though that no matter how justified I would feel (or be) in the moment it would only make things worse if I were to be violent.

A better tactic might be to resort to shame. No matter how they try and justify it people like the feminist aborting Christ mentioned above know deep in their hearts that what they are doing is beyond reprehensible.  I remember one time after a particularly disgusting comment by one of my crazy feminist cousins I took her hands in mine, told her to look at me, and then asked with a voice full of disgust why on earth she would ever say such a thing? She got a deer in the headlights look so I repeated what she said and asked her if she really meant it. Again she was silent so with more sincerely then I've ever mustered in my life I told her that she was far better then her statement. She averted her eyes, pulled her hands away, and hurried out of the room.

To be clear, I doubt I could ever manage something similar with a complete stranger, as my sincerity in that moment was based ultimately on the fact that I genuinely love and care about my cousin. But in moments where I am tempted to react with real hate I try as hard as I can to remember that moment and hold off my worst instincts. I can't say it always works, but I do take solace in the fact that at the very least I am able to recognize my failings, which is far more then many of Catholicism's enemies manage these days.




Re: Is it Morally Allowable to punch a Blasphemer. - GoodKingWenceslas - 03-14-2017

It seems a better thing than to attack them would be to use it to show what we are up against. This will convince people on the fence of the value of the pro-life movement. It shows that people who are pro-choice are not just pro-choice, but pro-abortion.